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Guest robertv

Hanging up my wings,

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Dear Fellow Simmers,Over the last several months, my interest in flightsimming as well as the simming community has been dwindling. I use to enjoy the hobby because I loved flying as well as the fellowship with other simmers. However, as of late and seeing the attitudes and bickering going on in the community and in these forums, it has helped me to make a decision and hang up my wings.There used to be a spirit in this community where everyone had something positive to contribute to this hobby, be it freeware, payware, it didn

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Brent,I can remember the stir that You and PF caused when you released your 737 back in the days of FS2000.Compared to some of the stuff that goes on now this was like a Nirvana period for flight simming.Enjoy what ever you decide to do.

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EDITED TO ADD MORE FROM MEMORYBrent, the AVSIM team and I appreciate your kind words, and of course, you are correct - I and others on the team have never made a cent off of AVSIM. But that isn't the issue that you present us here. Let me tell you a story - events that you will probably remember from your PF days. Four or five years ago, I had decided to throw in the towel and remove myself from the hobby, much as you are doing today and for much the same reason. I had concluded that the majority of those in our hobby were sniveling, spoilt children who did not deserve the investment in time and resources that we on the AVSIM team were making. As I usually do, I took the behavior, the harsh words, the denigration of all that we were doing, personally.Upon publicly announcing my intent to "get the heck out of Dodge", I received hundreds of email, encouraging me to reconsider. Over a couple of days, I realized that the ones who had been the cause of my decision in the first place were actually in a very small minority - a vocal one, but a small minority never the less (miniscule even). Why should that vocal minority drive us to make decisions that plainly would deprive the majority with whatever we were contributing? Obviously, we decided that they didn't have that power over us, and we are where we are today. We haven't looked back since.Of course I respect your decision, but would encourage you to reconsider. You have made a tremendous contribution here, as a member of Project Freeware, and besides, I would miss your daily email alerts keeping us on our toes. You have shared a wealth of information and experience with your fellow users in these and other forums, and I think your departure from our hobby would be a tremendous loss. I obviously hope you will reconsider.

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Let me add that I appreciate the help you have given me. I am sorry to hear this, and while I hope you reconsider, wish you the best.Regards,

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Sir, I have to agree with your views, a minority, thankfully, a small minority of "supposed" enthusiastic "Simmers" seem to argue for the sake of arguing and their"at some times abusive" remarks have driven many good people from this hobby. It is amazing to read the views of some people in various forums concerning both freeware and payware.Some good (incredibly good, as far as I am concerned) designers, painters, software designers, writers and programmers who devote their time and energy for free have been slated, and have left.Recently Richard Stefan who runs NAVDATA decided enough was enough, luckily the true simmers rallied together and persuaded him to carry on in his own time and to ignore the few.I think we are very lucky in this hobby that we have so many enthusiastic volunteers who push the boundarys a bit further than Microsoft and keep the hobby going, if we just relied on the default sim, it would be a very sad day.ThanksTerry

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Hey, As a member of this FS Community I feel priviledged to learn many many things from some of the most wonderful people I've met. There are many people out there who still uphold the respect, admiration and joy that many developers bring to the community. I also conclude that it seems that the most vocal of the community are "spoilt children" - these are the people who claim prices are too high, then proceed to download illegal copies and such like - a vicious circle. My policy has always been rise above these people -- take note of people who truely are passionate about the hobby, and give that little bit of joy to them, letting them know that you enjoy their work. I do not mean to "Stereo-type" all the young members of the Community, as I am a younger member myself -- but I feel it's time to do something about these people because they are destroying a great community for their own small, childish lifes...

______________________________[bR]Matthew Murray,Boeing 737NG Captain.[bR]

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Dear Brent,Sorry to hear of your decision, but I can understand how you could reach it. There are many fine developers who have chosen the "Format C:" option, rather than continue to deal with some of the malice and unpleasantness we see.But to balance the view, Tom observes it is an extraordinarily vocal few that are the cause of the problems that can dishearten. He's right, you know, and I hope you can take some satisfaction from knowing the vast majority of hobbyists are not that way inclined. They're thoughtful, reasonable people who are in this for fun or the challenge. I respect your reasoned, agreeable manner even under unfair pressures just as I respect your decision. I hope whatever choices you make bring you the pleasure and fulfilment that's lost to you in this arena. Remember that you are not without friends here, but that they're mostly the silent ones.Blue skies and tailwinds to you.Sincerely, http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

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Brent,wow, what a shock, and yet not a big surprise. I've known you from back in th PFG days, when simmers used to be "older", or should I say "more mature, less spoiled" and to see your post here in this forum (letters to the editorial staff) instead of the MSFS forum doesn't surprise me.You've always been a very humble, correct, helping and dedicated simmer/designer to help this community when help was needed, and develop those beautiful 737's (and much much more). I still remember how much I anticipated the release of those 737's and believe it or not, I still fly the "Vacation Express" in FS2004!!It is scary to see all the old schoolers leave as we've seen in the past 12-24 months. How rare is it to see posts from Steve Small, Brent Herbert, Staffan Ahlberg just to name a few. Heck, the negative attitude towards developers cost us the leaving of great designer groups such as PFG, IADG and many more.I still don't understand why people don't think before they type/write to developers, thanking them for their contribution and time dedicated to what was once a great hobby.I wish you Brent the best for years to come. You, PFG, Avsim, Steve Small and many more where the reason I started my flight training, and I thank you for that!! I would have never developed such an admiration for aviation without you guys, period.Please stop by the forums once in a while and say "hi".Fly long and prosper Brent.Cheers,Petehttp://members.aol.com/pzsoulman/myhomepage/logo.gifAthlonXP2000,AbitKX7-333(latest4in1),512MB/2700SDRAM,WinXP,DirectX8.1,Geforce3TI200(128MB)(Det.30.82),SBlive(WDM5.1.2601.0)

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Brent, I know what you mean. However, I don't think that it's so much different from the old "PF days" - there are just a LOT more people involved now, and becuase of that, you see more of the bad and the good.But as has always been the case, the "bad apples" tend to get to us more than the good ones. Seeing the number of "trolls" out there is also disturbing. As we noted a few years ago - someone that no one has ever heard of before, with just a handful of forum posts to his credit, pops up and takes shots at some project/release that everyone else is praising. Makes you wonder where they come from, or just whom they are posting on the behalf of.Hope things are well with you otherwise, ol' buddy. We're going to miss your words of wisdom around here.

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Hi Brent,I hope the season finds you well.A few thoughts.I can't say I disagree with your feelings, but I urge you to reconsider leaving the hobby.This type of behavior, (of which I have been guilty of as well from time to time), goes on everywhere.I deal with it almost every day in real life. Whether it be from clients, business associates, Scouting, Church, whatever. Mainly because I take leadership positions which put me on the firing line, so to speak.These forums just simply reflect what occurs in every day life.While it is these realities that make us upset, I can appreciate your feelings for wanting to hang it up.DON'T DO IT......That is why I created my own forums. I can still rant as I enjoy doing so, but I also post here. Not as often as in the past, but I try and help out here and there, when I browse and can assist.I have even tried my hand at repainting recently. I have not decided to release anything as of yet, but who knows, I may do so.Brent, this place is a community that yes, has lost older members and have gained newer members.I can't honestly say who is in it for the money and who is not, not without auditing their books, so we can only rely on their word.Some people's word I trust, others I do not, since they have lied or misled in the past, and some continue to do so.As you know Integrity is important to me.So what I do is do as others have suggested.Just as some members ignore my posts, ignore theirs. If a post bothers you, simply resist the urge to speak up. If I had a nickel for every post I felt like responding to here, I would be a rich man.But alas, If I want to vent, I have somewhere else to vent.I commend you for speaking up for the various foks you spoke about above, and yes, some should be commended, but IMHO, some deserve the treatment they get based upon their own actions. (especially if a truth is involved) But as in the movie, some can't handle the truth. IMHO, these are the ones in it for the money. Nothing wrong with that at all. But as a consumer, I have expectations, and when they don't meet them, I can say whatever I like, as long as it is true.The work Tom and his staff have done here is nothing short of remarkable.From the Richard Harvey Scholarship fund which truly touched my heart, to making the thousands of downloads available to the masses courtesy of their library, with NO STRINGS ATTACHED. A commendable thing.So, in conclusion, I reccommend you do what I do when in a bind, and need to make a decision.1) Make a pro - con list. Two columns, one pro, one con. Write out all the GREAT things about our hobby, and then write down all the bad things.2) Ignore the good things... Why, because if you ignore them, they will simply continue to happen. fate.3) Take the list of Con things, and ask yourself how you can be rid of those feelings PERSONALLY. Not for the whole community, just for you. Ignore the posts, or if you disagree with the post.But keep this in mind. You are part of this community, and before you go, maybe just take a break, and return after say, January 15th or so. Remember, these forums, and others have a Christmas effect where kids are home from school, cranky people take time off from work just so they can bash at Avsim, and this is well-documented, ok maybe just noticed by me, but I bet a lot of members may agree with me on that one.There is plenty of good spirit, and great attitude, and one only needs to browse the screenshot forum to find accolades.Ok, my apologies for my long rant, but I hope you choose to stick around.Best Regards,Joe http://aboutpolitics.net/images/bannerav.gif.About Politics.net - FORUMShttp://pub207.ezboard.com/bpoliticsgivemel...tyorgivemedeath.Contribute to the Richard Harvey Scholarship Fund.http://www.avsim.com/pages/scholarship.shtml

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Brent,As an educator, I can tell you that from the writing style of some of the messages to this forum, they are written by 12-16 year old boys who have the 12-16 year old ability of commonsense, good manners, and intellectual capacity.Did I say 'spot the neuron'?Seriously, there are plenty of pleasant, and delightfully committed kids in this forum, to make it worth while. However, I would not let kids who wanna see their name on the computer, and enjoy starting a fire fight, in any way stop me from my hobby.I do, what I do professionally, and ignore them when they are in this self-destruct mode, and they WILL go away to some live chatroom where they can see their names repeatedly!! Deprive the idiot of an audience and they soon stop.We do all have times where our hobby is put on the back shelf. This is normal, my longest shelf was about 6 months, but I come back and start flight planning all over again.Stick with us, 99% of us are worth it!

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Hi Brent,Ronald stated:"from the writing style of some of the messages to this forum, they are written by 12-16 year old boys who have the 12-16 year old ability of commonsense, good manners, and intellectual capacity"......I think we can safely say that this age group doesn't have the monopoly when it comes to appropriate behaviour in a public form such as this.Throughout my working career I've had to deal with monosynaptic idiots whose purpose on this planet seems to be a determination to make life uncomfortable for others. They are now, were in the past, and, in the future, always will be in the minority and their petty, ill-considered utterances serve only to remind us of the diverse nature of our species. Unless they are open to reasonable argument and exhibit a willingness to behave more appropriately in settings such as these forums, then they should be ignored, for they will never change.On occasions such as this I would think of the aphorism once told to me many years ago by a good friend: "nil desperandum carborundum"Believe me, it's the only way. Such individuals have not the right to behave towards any of us as they do. We should pity them and turn our backs until such a time as they see the error of their ways. Whatever you do, don't let them get to you, for that, I am afraid, is all they want or need.Good luck and I do hope you will change your mind. We need to stand firm shoulder to shoulder with one another :)Mike :-wave

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Brent,I, too, hope you would reconsider. You are a great asset to this community. We need more leaders like you to serve as good examples.Whatever you decide - Good luck.Best,Bill Browning

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Hey Brent: I echo all of the above; you merely have to study the writing style and language to understand where it comes from: for every thousand normal, reasonable satisfied simmer customers (and avid readers of this site) there are perhaps a hundred that contribute: the rest are shy, or perceive themselves to be lacking in knowledge, or (put your own reason here); but there is bound to be one or two out of that great thousand that will drive you up the wall: they would drive me up the wall: my wife and I own a hobby shop and the retail trade is the stomping ground of theese morons; and it applies in all endeavours; stores; classes; lodge meetings; pta meetings; flying clubs; chess clubs; the workplace; anywhere you go. All of us normal people read this tripe and sometimes have to listen to it; we make our observations; and move on. We know what is reasonable and normal, so - as one of the other postees said - please don't leave our family - WE other 997 need you. The oddballs will eventually be ostracised by this society, they will get the message and move on.I/we will look forward to your next positive post.Regards all, and best wishes for a happy holiday.PJ - a representative of the silent majority.

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Hi Brent,I don't know you, nor did I know of your contribution, but in my sporadic experience with Avsim since the summer before ProPilot went gold, I can see you have a tough choice.My $0.01,Calvin Waterbury II

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Hi Brent, Like the previous poster, I don't know you personally, but I can vouch for your excellent work and help from the PFG days, when all we had was MSFS and PF's wonderful works. Like many others, I can understand how the constant bickering, etc. can get one down... I myself drop out of the forums for a time because of such behavior. But I always come back after a while and see things have cleared up and most everyone is back to a happy group. So take some time away, relax and enjoy what you enjoy, then drop back in and see how things are going. Am sure over the years, you know and see the cycle - and once in a while it will get to us. I too, wish to add my voice and say I hope you will reconsider and stay around - even if just in the background - with an occasional post here and there with some of your good and gracious words of wisdom.Best in all you do!Ken Wood :-sun1http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

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Hi Brent, hope you have not drifted so far away from us that you have not had a chance to read the posts above. I would wish to add my appreciation to you for your contribution to this great hobby. I may sound a bit harsh but you have never sounded like a quitter to me. If,for one minute, you think you are the only one who has considered throwing in the towel you are sadly wrong. Fortunately the majority of those who have contemplated following your example have reconsidered. If we go through life (and I'm well on in that regard) not doing something we love because of the actions of ignorant, selfish and deficient individuals ..... they win and we lose...... it's as simple as that. I am learning to immediately and completely ignore any evidence of those folks and devote my concentration on all the good, considerate people who continue to frequent our flight sim world and who like yourself contribute so much for the enjoyment of others. Be the great friend you are to all of us and stick with us please. Gary, Member #59436 in an old international club whose motto is "ILLIGITMUS NON CARBORUNDUM EST"

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Brent,Like many before me, I have not had the pleasure of dealing with you before. I too have had similar feelings before, after my email inbox was spammed silly by irate users who demanded to know why my aircraft or models didn't work for them (they were written for FU3, not MSFS - Duh...), I nearly pulled the plug. Constantly jamming-up the server made the problem surface in the office too - not a good thing at all.I was about to give it away and I decided to announce a 'temporary' retirement, just to let things cool down.I was then inundated by positive responses and realised that the 'flack' was not coming from Avsim, but from a few 'children' who had nothing better to do than try to 'heavy' me into doing what they wanted. One guy had even downloaded one of my aircraft, tried to 'steal' the resources to use for himself and was demanding that I fixed his (now trashed) AF99 :-eekUnfortunately, mainstream software (MSFS) attract 'mainstream idiots' - in spades. For this reason, I avoid it altogether and concentrate on working for FU3 nowadays. They're a great bunch and always show their appreciation (and politely point out problems) so I've never had to 'leave'.I know it's a different sim but, being non-commercial (now), it attracts true enthusiasts. When any poor fool tries to cause problems, they are dealt with very smartly. Please have a quick browse through the FU3 forum, just to see how it SHOULD be. You'll have trouble picking the users from the developers because we're a friendly lot ;)Oh, and unlike some other forums :-roll , we don't edit our screenshots. I still can't believe that..."Don't (ever) let the turkeys get you down."Regards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

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Sorry to see you go. I feel that mostly everyone I talk to in this FS-world demand the HIGHEST quality around. However, they fail to realize, if you want it your way, make it yourself. Then there are hte people who bash free-ware.. Personally that is as low as it gets. I think Avsim deserves more recognition for allowing EACH of us to use their site any time we want for FREE. If they were to make some money of it. I would care less, they deserve some money. All I have to say to those who feel the work could be better(on software). GET A REAL LICENSE! You can't compare Fs to the RW. I currently have 40 hours logged IN A CESSNA 172 with American Flyers. I've spent a few 1000 dollars, BUT instead of sitting on my rear every day looking at a 17" screen. I'm doing something actually has an effect. All I have to say to you FS'ers is to take the money you would spend on making your PC redicuously fast and spend it on an intro lesson. Then tell me how good you think you are at flying. Most of you, if not all, feel that if you can fly a Fully loaded 747-400 in FS, you can certainly do it in the RW. I doubt any of you could properly fly even a cessna 152. That means, ALL radio commms,checklists, SOP's. Everything from the walkaround to the shut down. But remember, there is NO CTRL+E... But sir, it is sad to see you go, and I feel I will be joining you soon.

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My thoughts echo everything positive that's been posted so far.Having been involved in volunteer things almost all my working life, it is easy to understand your feelings. Many times I was all set to "pull the pin" when frustration was at a peak. Then, suddenly, this thought would flash into my mind. "No way! You aren't gonna run me off. Not in a month of Sundays". This little touch of anger always gave me enough resolve to pull myself up and out of the hole and resume what I enjoyed.I hope you might see fit to do the same. If not, good luck and thanks for everything.CalChief InstructorHoverSafe Academyhttp://members.shaw.ca/hoversafe/Hoversafe.htm

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Brent,I know what you mean. And I feel horrible because I tend to find myself on the whining side far too often, though I'd like to think less often than I used to.Your 737s to me were groundbreaking. You're one of my biggest 737 influences and it's really sad to see you go, but I can understand it. Lately I've been more than tempted myself. When dealing with whetever personal issues we have to deal with, the last thing one needs to put up with is mindless pissing about inane subjects. Funny how it took the death of an SGA member to really drive that point home for me. It's trivial. People need to just shut up and enjoy simmin.'Cheers!-Erick

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Brent,I have "hung up my virtual wings" several times over the many years I've been simming but I always come back. Attitudes and people come and go. I miss the old days when Eric Ernst was active in the hobby but then hated all the BS he was put through. I was an avid Aerowinx PS1.3 user for a year or two and frequented that forum but never quite fit in. I've bounced back and forth between MSFS and Falcon several times but no longer feel smart enough to install all the Falcon patches and upgrades and program my HOTAS system, let alone remember how to control the weapons systems! I'm back to Avsim and FS9 now but I don't recognize the names in the forum anymore. It is still the best source of sim info out there but I spend more time flying than lurking in the forums. IMO flight simulation is a great hobby and has enough breadth and depth to entertain me for a lifetime. I'm thinking the Avsim Convention will probably reignite my passion for the hobby in yet new ways. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.David

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I have not yet seen any of your work or posts here on the forums, but it saddens me to see yet another contributor to the flightsim community throw in the towel.I have been simming since the age of 7 (currently 13), and truly appreciate everything Microsoft and Developers have contributed to this great hobby. Not every "game" released has well over 50,000 add-ons available for download. That's what makes this community special. Not just avsim, but the whole bunch of flight simmers.I'm sure you have heard this, but don't few let selfish and ignorant people spoil your good time. The majority, as you can see in this thread, quite frankly have a good head on their shoulders. There are always going to be that gang of people who flame, etc.. If that was the case with general life you would have more then likely committed murder years ago!I quite strongly suggest you reconsider your decision.

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Hello Brent,As written by some above, I too didn't know your work before this post. Did a search in flightsim.com and avsim.com and found we started doing repaints around the same time, 1999 (a century ago). You first release i could find, an Air Belgium 757 (my first a KLM luchtvaart college Beech Bonanza). Many more followed after those for both of us.Let me first say that I doubt this post was the last we'll hear from you. By releasing many repaints and other add-ons for FS you've proven you do like to make them. I am also pretty sure you still like to do the actual paintwork, or making timetables. It

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Hello Brent, I am very small fry in the flightsim community but if you go they win. Don't give up and leave there are still good fellow simmers around like myself I hope. I have sometimes been astonished myself at some of the comments made by some in here but seriously, if you give up they win. Don't let them we need the likes of you here. By the way, thanks to all who have contibuted to this community, I have given zilch, not because I haven't wanted to , but because I haven't got the brains! Any one out there willing to show me how to make and share photo-real textures? I'd love to know how to do that so I could give something back.Paul

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