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Guest robertv

Hanging up my wings,

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Dear Fellow Simmers,Over the last several months, my interest in flightsimming as well as the simming community has been dwindling. I use to enjoy the hobby because I loved flying as well as the fellowship with other simmers. However, as of late and seeing the attitudes and bickering going on in the community and in these forums, it has helped me to make a decision and hang up my wings.There used to be a spirit in this community where everyone had something positive to contribute to this hobby, be it freeware, payware, it didn

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Brent,I can remember the stir that You and PF caused when you released your 737 back in the days of FS2000.Compared to some of the stuff that goes on now this was like a Nirvana period for flight simming.Enjoy what ever you decide to do.

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EDITED TO ADD MORE FROM MEMORYBrent, the AVSIM team and I appreciate your kind words, and of course, you are correct - I and others on the team have never made a cent off of AVSIM. But that isn't the issue that you present us here. Let me tell you a story - events that you will probably remember from your PF days. Four or five years ago, I had decided to throw in the towel and remove myself from the hobby, much as you are doing today and for much the same reason. I had concluded that the majority of those in our hobby were sniveling, spoilt children who did not deserve the investment in time and resources that we on the AVSIM team were making. As I usually do, I took the behavior, the harsh words, the denigration of all that we were doing, personally.Upon publicly announcing my intent to "get the heck out of Dodge", I received hundreds of email, encouraging me to reconsider. Over a couple of days, I realized that the ones who had been the cause of my decision in the first place were actually in a very small minority - a vocal one, but a small minority never the less (miniscule even). Why should that vocal minority drive us to make decisions that plainly would deprive the majority with whatever we were contributing? Obviously, we decided that they didn't have that power over us, and we are where we are today. We haven't looked back since.Of course I respect your decision, but would encourage you to reconsider. You have made a tremendous contribution here, as a member of Project Freeware, and besides, I would miss your daily email alerts keeping us on our toes. You have shared a wealth of information and experience with your fellow users in these and other forums, and I think your departure from our hobby would be a tremendous loss. I obviously hope you will reconsider.

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Let me add that I appreciate the help you have given me. I am sorry to hear this, and while I hope you reconsider, wish you the best.Regards,

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Sir, I have to agree with your views, a minority, thankfully, a small minority of "supposed" enthusiastic "Simmers" seem to argue for the sake of arguing and their"at some times abusive" remarks have driven many good people from this hobby. It is amazing to read the views of some people in various forums concerning both freeware and payware.Some good (incredibly good, as far as I am concerned) designers, painters, software designers, writers and programmers who devote their time and energy for free have been slated, and have left.Recently Richard Stefan who runs NAVDATA decided enough was enough, luckily the true simmers rallied together and persuaded him to carry on in his own time and to ignore the few.I think we are very lucky in this hobby that we have so many enthusiastic volunteers who push the boundarys a bit further than Microsoft and keep the hobby going, if we just relied on the default sim, it would be a very sad day.ThanksTerry

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Hey, As a member of this FS Community I feel priviledged to learn many many things from some of the most wonderful people I've met. There are many people out there who still uphold the respect, admiration and joy that many developers bring to the community. I also conclude that it seems that the most vocal of the community are "spoilt children" - these are the people who claim prices are too high, then proceed to download illegal copies and such like - a vicious circle. My policy has always been rise above these people -- take note of people who truely are passionate about the hobby, and give that little bit of joy to them, letting them know that you enjoy their work. I do not mean to "Stereo-type" all the young members of the Community, as I am a younger member myself -- but I feel it's time to do something about these people because they are destroying a great community for their own small, childish lifes...

______________________________[bR]Matthew Murray,Boeing 737NG Captain.[bR]

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Dear Brent,Sorry to hear of your decision, but I can understand how you could reach it. There are many fine developers who have chosen the "Format C:" option, rather than continue to deal with some of the malice and unpleasantness we see.But to balance the view, Tom observes it is an extraordinarily vocal few that are the cause of the problems that can dishearten. He's right, you know, and I hope you can take some satisfaction from knowing the vast majority of hobbyists are not that way inclined. They're thoughtful, reasonable people who are in this for fun or the challenge. I respect your reasoned, agreeable manner even under unfair pressures just as I respect your decision. I hope whatever choices you make bring you the pleasure and fulfilment that's lost to you in this arena. Remember that you are not without friends here, but that they're mostly the silent ones.Blue skies and tailwinds to you.Sincerely, http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

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Brent,wow, what a shock, and yet not a big surprise. I've known you from back in th PFG days, when simmers used to be "older", or should I say "more mature, less spoiled" and to see your post here in this forum (letters to the editorial staff) instead of the MSFS forum doesn't surprise me.You've always been a very humble, correct, helping and dedicated simmer/designer to help this community when help was needed, and develop those beautiful 737's (and much much more). I still remember how much I anticipated the release of those 737's and believe it or not, I still fly the "Vacation Express" in FS2004!!It is scary to see all the old schoolers leave as we've seen in the past 12-24 months. How rare is it to see posts from Steve Small, Brent Herbert, Staffan Ahlberg just to name a few. Heck, the negative attitude towards developers cost us the leaving of great designer groups such as PFG, IADG and many more.I still don't understand why people don't think before they type/write to developers, thanking them for their contribution and time dedicated to what was once a great hobby.I wish you Brent the best for years to come. You, PFG, Avsim, Steve Small and many more where the reason I started my flight training, and I thank you for that!! I would have never developed such an admiration for aviation without you guys, period.Please stop by the forums once in a while and say "hi".Fly long and prosper Brent.Cheers,Petehttp://members.aol.com/pzsoulman/myhomepage/logo.gifAthlonXP2000,AbitKX7-333(latest4in1),512MB/2700SDRAM,WinXP,DirectX8.1,Geforce3TI200(128MB)(Det.30.82),SBlive(WDM5.1.2601.0)

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Brent, I know what you mean. However, I don't think that it's so much different from the old "PF days" - there are just a LOT more people involved now, and becuase of that, you see more of the bad and the good.But as has always been the case, the "bad apples" tend to get to us more than the good ones. Seeing the number of "trolls" out there is also disturbing. As we noted a few years ago - someone that no one has ever heard of before, with just a handful of forum posts to his credit, pops up and takes shots at some project/release that everyone else is praising. Makes you wonder where they come from, or just whom they are posting on the behalf of.Hope things are well with you otherwise, ol' buddy. We're going to miss your words of wisdom around here.

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Hi Brent,I hope the season finds you well.A few thoughts.I can't say I disagree with your feelings, but I urge you to reconsider leaving the hobby.This type of behavior, (of which I have been guilty of as well from time to time), goes on everywhere.I deal with it almost every day in real life. Whether it be from clients, business associates, Scouting, Church, whatever. Mainly because I take leadership positions which put me on the firing line, so to speak.These forums just simply reflect what occurs in every day life.While it is these realities that make us upset, I can appreciate your feelings for wanting to hang it up.DON'T DO IT......That is why I created my own forums. I can still rant as I enjoy doing so, but I also post here. Not as often as in the past, but I try and help out here and there, when I browse and can assist.I have even tried my hand at repainting recently. I have not decided to release anything as of yet, but who knows, I may do so.Brent, this place is a community that yes, has lost older members and have gained newer members.I can't honestly say who is in it for the money and who is not, not without auditing their books, so we can only rely on their word.Some people's word I trust, others I do not, since they have lied or misled in the past, and some continue to do so.As you know Integrity is important to me.So what I do is do as others have suggested.Just as some members ignore my posts, ignore theirs. If a post bothers you, simply resist the urge to speak up. If I had a nickel for every post I felt like responding to here, I would be a rich man.But alas, If I want to vent, I have somewhere else to vent.I commend you for speaking up for the various foks you spoke about above, and yes, some should be commended, but IMHO, some deserve the treatment they get based upon their own actions. (especially if a truth is involved) But as in the movie, some can't handle the truth. IMHO, these are the ones in it for the money. Nothing wrong with that at all. But as a consumer, I have expectations, and when they don't meet them, I can say whatever I like, as long as it is true.The work Tom and his staff have done here is nothing short of remarkable.From the Richard Harvey Scholarship fund which truly touched my heart, to making the thousands of downloads available to the masses courtesy of their library, with NO STRINGS ATTACHED. A commendable thing.So, in conclusion, I reccommend you do what I do when in a bind, and need to make a decision.1) Make a pro - con list. Two columns, one pro, one con. Write out all the GREAT things about our hobby, and then write down all the bad things.2) Ignore the good things... Why, because if you ignore them, they will simply continue to happen. fate.3) Take the list of Con things, and ask yourself how you can be rid of those feelings PERSONALLY. Not for the whole community, just for you. Ignore the posts, or if you disagree with the post.But keep this in mind. You are part of this community, and before you go, maybe just take a break, and return after say, January 15th or so. Remember, these forums, and others have a Christmas effect where kids are home from school, cranky people take time off from work just so they can bash at Avsim, and this is well-documented, ok maybe just noticed by me, but I bet a lot of members may agree with me on that one.There is plenty of good spirit, and great attitude, and one only needs to browse the screenshot forum to find accolades.Ok, my apologies for my long rant, but I hope you choose to stick around.Best Regards,Joe http://aboutpolitics.net/images/bannerav.gif.About Politics.net - FORUMShttp://pub207.ezboard.com/bpoliticsgivemel...tyorgivemedeath.Contribute to the Richard Harvey Scholarship Fund.http://www.avsim.com/pages/scholarship.shtml

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Brent,As an educator, I can tell you that from the writing style of some of the messages to this forum, they are written by 12-16 year old boys who have the 12-16 year old ability of commonsense, good manners, and intellectual capacity.Did I say 'spot the neuron'?Seriously, there are plenty of pleasant, and delightfully committed kids in this forum, to make it worth while. However, I would not let kids who wanna see their name on the computer, and enjoy starting a fire fight, in any way stop me from my hobby.I do, what I do professionally, and ignore them when they are in this self-destruct mode, and they WILL go away to some live chatroom where they can see their names repeatedly!! Deprive the idiot of an audience and they soon stop.We do all have times where our hobby is put on the back shelf. This is normal, my longest shelf was about 6 months, but I come back and start flight planning all over again.Stick with us, 99% of us are worth it!

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Hi Brent,Ronald stated:"from the writing style of some of the messages to this forum, they are written by 12-16 year old boys who have the 12-16 year old ability of commonsense, good manners, and intellectual capacity"......I think we can safely say that this age group doesn't have the monopoly when it comes to appropriate behaviour in a public form such as this.Throughout my working career I've had to deal with monosynaptic idiots whose purpose on this planet seems to be a determination to make life uncomfortable for others. They are now, were in the past, and, in the future, always will be in the minority and their petty, ill-considered utterances serve only to remind us of the diverse nature of our species. Unless they are open to reasonable argument and exhibit a willingness to behave more appropriately in settings such as these forums, then they should be ignored, for they will never change.On occasions such as this I would think of the aphorism once told to me many years ago by a good friend: "nil desperandum carborundum"Believe me, it's the only way. Such individuals have not the right to behave towards any of us as they do. We should pity them and turn our backs until such a time as they see the error of their ways. Whatever you do, don't let them get to you, for that, I am afraid, is all they want or need.Good luck and I do hope you will change your mind. We need to stand firm shoulder to shoulder with one another :)Mike :-wave

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Brent,I, too, hope you would reconsider. You are a great asset to this community. We need more leaders like you to serve as good examples.Whatever you decide - Good luck.Best,Bill Browning

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Hey Brent: I echo all of the above; you merely have to study the writing style and language to understand where it comes from: for every thousand normal, reasonable satisfied simmer customers (and avid readers of this site) there are perhaps a hundred that contribute: the rest are shy, or perceive themselves to be lacking in knowledge, or (put your own reason here); but there is bound to be one or two out of that great thousand that will drive you up the wall: they would drive me up the wall: my wife and I own a hobby shop and the retail trade is the stomping ground of theese morons; and it applies in all endeavours; stores; classes; lodge meetings; pta meetings; flying clubs; chess clubs; the workplace; anywhere you go. All of us normal people read this tripe and sometimes have to listen to it; we make our observations; and move on. We know what is reasonable and normal, so - as one of the other postees said - please don't leave our family - WE other 997 need you. The oddballs will eventually be ostracised by this society, they will get the message and move on.I/we will look forward to your next positive post.Regards all, and best wishes for a happy holiday.PJ - a representative of the silent majority.

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Hi Brent,I don't know you, nor did I know of your contribution, but in my sporadic experience with Avsim since the summer before ProPilot went gold, I can see you have a tough choice.My $0.01,Calvin Waterbury II

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