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R.C. v3:to buy or not to buy?

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Hi,I was wondering what you think of radar contact3,is is worth the moneyI've been reading a lot in their forums and I'm really doubting if I should buy itany advice appreciatedSeba

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First off: I'm not a Beta tester of RCV3 nor associated with the development team in any way, shape, or form.To buy or not to buy: it really depends on you.Here's some questions to think about:Do you fly mostly VFR in GA aircraft?Do you fly mostly the big birds?Are you a real world pilot?Have you dealt with ATC in the real world?Are you happy with ATC as provided by FS2k2?What are your expectations of the product?What do you think the product actually does?Are you willing to believe that any limitations that exists in RCV3 might be due to the limitations of FS2K2 (or even your computer)?Are you willing to read the whole manual (several times)?Are you willing to fly the tutorials?etc.Okay...my answers and comments on why I bought it:I fly mostly bush flights, but I still love to fly IMC. I don't fly big iron, but I still want interaction with ATC. I'm not a real world pilot, but I play one on TV (a little humour there). I've only listened to ATC during my military days (Army aviation). I think FS2K2 ATC needs lots of improvement. I've thouroughly read the manual and only expect it to due what is stated. I think RCV3 is an excellent alternative to FS2K2 ATC and I realize it is only a simulator. I believe severe limitations exists in FS2K2, and that these limitations leech their way into numerous add-on products. I've read the manual and flown (some of) the tutorials.It appears several individuals bought the product with great expecations...and walked away very unsatisfied. Even more aquired the product and are extremely pleased with it. Research...read the manual...read the forums...ask questions if you got 'em.I, personnaly, liked what I read. I enjoyed the manual. And I have a job that pays very well...so I didn't mind blowing a few bucks. Some people spend more money for less.Just my humble opinion. I apologize if I offend anyone (which seems pretty easy sometimes).Brad

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With out a doubt, RCv.3 is the best FS add on one could purchase at this time!! Going from FS2000 to FS2002, I really missed using ProFlight 2000. Now that RCv.3 is out, flying is more fun than a person should be allowed to have. Check out the Radar Contact forum for more reviews and opinions, however I feel you will really enjoy this add on.Paul

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To buy or not to buy should really rest on your own determination how much of an IFR "freak" you are. If you want to practice *different* IFR approaches, if you want to hear the correct IFR phraseology then RC is a must. If you just want to hear ATC "voices" in the background, if you want to assume you are operating in the 100% radar/ILS environment where there is little self-navigation in the terminal area - the default ATC may be just fine. I would say the power of RC will specially be appreciated in case of some heavy IFR GA flying - say using the Garmin GNS. Michael J.[link:jdtllc.com]http://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

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I do not have v3 yet, but traditionally RC has had a way of separating the men from the goats. If you're a gamer or casual simmer where real-world procedure means little or nothing to you, RC is not for you.Be prepared to study and learn. From what I have heard of v3, if you find products like PIC, the PSS Airbus, or DF products 'daunting' or 'overly complicated' - RC is probably not the way to go.RC is definitely geared at the "hard-core" simmers market and RW pilots who demand the sim be "as real as it gets".J

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oh, but I'm defenitely a hardcore simmer and I'm familiar (read "very familiar ") with IFR procedures,infact I only fly the PSS A320,FSMETEo,FDC,full PAI=>I'm not a gamer:)The biggest point that is withdrawing me right now from buying it, is that I heard a sound sample of it and the speak looks very slow, much more unrealistic than the default ATC.Could any-one confirm this?btw,I'm aware that there initially has been a problem with voice fluidity, but it's been solved and the sound sample I heared had the fix appliedthank for the info guys!regards,Seba

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Seba,In my short (3 days) experience with RC v.3, I'd say that the voices are pretty good all things considered. I had to use the fix of upping the priority of the RC process, but once I did that the voice slowdown completely disappeared. The voices aren't as fluid as human saying the phrases, but they aren't bad. It certainly isn't stopping me from enjoying the product. I'd highly recommend it!

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Um i dont post alot on this forum, or any other.So this is mostly a question.Why would anybody go out and "buy" a product that is just a better version of the FS2k2 ATC. What i mean is its mechanical, not real controllers.IVAO, VATSIM, is free, have LIVE controllers, giving LIVE ATC, Accurate ATC, Most Controllers are REAL WORLD controllers. If you want "as real as it gets" How much more is that!!! Live ATC, Real World Procedures...and its free?? You say "roger" on VATSIM your most likely response would be "hello, whats your name??"I dont know anything about Radar Contact, or the Flight Sim ATC(first thing i did after the install was disable everything ATC). For 20bucks(cdn) I bought a mike and have enjoyed REAL WORLD ATC ever since.So back to the question, why buy a program, when the real stuff is available FREE????Servinfo is the utility you can download(sorry but its free also)that shows you ALL the ATC and Pilots logged onto VATSIM, IVAO. Plse dont take offence i really am asking a question.Shooterman.

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I used SB quite a bit last summer-and please don't take me wrong-it is really great.All present atc's have compromises in reality.When using SB I picked up my clearances almost nightly from Cleveland center when my airport is a couple hundred of miles away well into Michigan-and from that point on all the frequencies , centers and procedures didn't really match the reality of a real flight. Yes, the live person was cool and added a certain tension-but for practicing for a real flight a lot of compromises have to be made. As it is a first come first serve deal-compromises have to made-sometimes I couldn't fly as no one was available anywhere nearby-another time I found the controller didn't really understand too much of procedures himself. There are reasons to use both-SB gives you the live aspect of it-and depending on who is working what, where can be very realistic.In many respects though-the computer generated can now give you the reality of almost all procedures-especially with the addition of Rc 3.0. You can also pause the flight to take a phone call-or go have dinner and return two hours later (or even save it mid flight) to start up later. As a pilot who wants to practice real flights this is very useful. Why not use both?Hope that answers your question-they are both great -just different.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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The main problem with VATSIM - some areas are sparsely covered. You want to fly to some cute small airport that you just got a great model for .. but there are no controllers, no pilots flying there. VATSIM may be great for big, popular airports (and for certain times of day) but is useless if you fly to some secondary airports or off-hours.Michael J.

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I'll offer one reason why. Frankly, I think a lot of people are intimidated by the idea of flying on Vatsim because they don't want to look like an idiot in front of an audience of live human beings. I know that is precisely why I have not gone out and bought a headset.It seems to me RC seems to me to be good prep for the VATSIM world so you can be ready when the controller says cleared for the Expressway visual and know exactly what is expected.

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No ill to VATSIM - I fly on it all the time, but there is more than 1 reason to use RC.1. Realistic VFR and IFR flights anywhere...anytime...; Coverage on VATSIM is generally pretty spotty. When I fly VATSIM, I only have ATC about 10-20% of the time.2. ATC procedures are conformant to FAR's in RC; it's a mixed bag on VATSIM which staff a very broad range of ATC experiences from novices to real-world controllers. 3. ATC works ALL the time in RC - no futzing around with lag times, latency issues, downed roger wilco servers..jumping between voice and text. 4. RC is an interactive learning tool. You might learn something from other pilots/controllers on VATSIM but you won't get a personal critique of your performance at the end of the day (unless you really ##### off one of the VATSIM staff, in which case your critique is probably your last ;-) 5. RC allows you to learn at a pace you're comfortable with - in a reasonably consistent setting (i.e. you can expect that ATC more or less knows what they're doing). Anyone flying into LAX on VATSIM knows things can be really crazy with the volume of traffic and the hodgepodge of experienced vs inexperienced controllers trying to work the airspace. I know on more than one occassion, I have pulled my hair out after waiting 40 minutes with my engines turning on the tarmac waiting for ATC to give me some kind of taxi instruction - usually that ends in me dropping connection from SquawkBox and saying, "screw it, I don't have all evening, I'm taking off..." With RC, I can at least be assured that some junior novice isn't manning a high-volume ATC position. I realize VATSIM is a tool of learning not just for pilots but for controllers - but I sincerely wish instructors would direct newbies to man smaller, lower traffic volume airspaces before jumping headlong into something like approach control for JFK ;-) Anyway, RC avoids all that foolishness. The converse can also be true...when the controllers on VATSIM are 'sharp' and really shuttling instructions out to many aircraft at an accelerated pace (I've experienced this at LAX also!) - people can be embarassed or nervous about making mistakes. RC gives the newbie a very private personal environment to familiarze themselves with proper procedures - mistakes cost you little in terms of disrupting others and keeping your ego intact (of course, the critiques at the end of an RC flight might raise some hackles :).6. Not everyone has broadband connectivity or free dial-up access to the Internet. RC affords simmers in those boats to experience real ATC without digging deep into the pocketbooks.7. RC allows you to hand off functionality to a virtual co-pilot which is a fun twist. Won't find that on VATSIM.8. RC gives you quite a bit of flexibility in the kinds of requests you can make - requests that may or may not be very accomodating to controllers on VATSIM (especially the inexperienced ones). RC will also throw situations at you - vectors for traffic, hold scenarios, etc. You won't be able to get into a "hold scenario" on VATSIM unless you choose to fly on a day and a time when there's a big fly-in event taking place...and then you're limited to which airports you can fly. With RC, you can create some busy scenarios at 3 in the morning at any airport if you want it. With the exception of departure and arrival, ATC on VATSIM is pretty 'static'. On VATSIM, once you're up and cruising you can pretty much put your head on the desk and fall asleep until you're ready to land. Not so in RC.Well, those are a few reasons. Perhaps the most important reason of all though: It's simply alot of fun. VATSIM is great. Love it. Use it, but it's not a 1:1 replacement for a product like Radar Contact.J

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"The biggest point that is withdrawing me right now from buying it, is that I heard a sound sample of it and the speak looks very slow, much more unrealistic than the default ATC.Could any-one confirm this?"Where did you find a sample?

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>"I'm not a real world pilot, but I play one on TV"< Now that was funny! :-xxrotflmao :-xxrotflmao :-wave

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>So back to the question, why buy a program, when the real >stuff is available FREE???? >Shooterman. Not trying to be a smart-alec, and better responses have been given to why some prefer RC over Vatsim, but...Why use the flight simulator when real aircraft at real airports are nearby in the real world?Relax...take it easy...it's a simulator (to some, a game). It's up to the end user to make it as real as he or she likes by utilizing whatever assets are available and meet his or her preferences.It's your right not to purchase the program. I'm sure we all respect that decision.If it's not for you...don't buy it.If it sounds interesting, buy it.Brad

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It's not slow at all on my machine. The only thing I miss is AI control.

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See we can have an intelligent conversation on this here forum.Thnks guys. Now i know.

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Thanks Jase,I just learned more about the program than I did on their site. Nice review. I might pick up a copy.

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Seba,As the others have said, it's your option to buy. I suggest you go to RC's web site at http://www.jdtllc.com and throughly read the site, as well as download the manual. While it is important for you to read other user's opinions, you are always free to ask any questions you may have at the RC Forum here on Avsim. This will clear up any concerns you may have directly from developers and beta testers. After all, it is -your- decition to buy.The RC crew have been very busy lately resolving the unexpected issue of the speech playing very slow. At a fellow beta tester's (Scott Campbell) site (http://www.fsflightdeck.com/rcv3), contains a downloadable wav of what RC sounds like on his computer. With some additional fixes the RC team has come up with, the speech can be prioritized and made even quicker.As I said earlier, you are free to take as long as you like in deciding to buy or not. After you post, and allow us to answer your questions, you can decide if RC is for you.Subs


http://www.jdtllc.com/images/RCbeta.jpg

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ok, thank you gents,I think I'm gonna buy it :)and why not VATSIM? well,online-ATC might be a bit more realistic in procedurs (though RC also does a very good job on this), I still can't imagine my FS without AI traffic.with RC, I can have both :)regards,Seba

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"I still can't imagine my FS without AI traffic.with RC, I can have both" A correction: You can have AI Traffic while flying in VATSIM too. All you have to do is not enter a Multiplayer session.Warning: In both "enviroments" (VATSIM online flying and RCv3), the controllers will not be able to direct the AI traffic.Stamatis

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>"I still can't imagine my FS without AI traffic.with RC, >I can have both" >>A correction: You can have AI Traffic while flying in >VATSIM too. All you have to do is not enter a >Multiplayer session. That will be the fast track to a "Hello" From a SUP. I'm imagining "Sorry, can't taxi I have 5 AI planes in front of me"Seriously, personally after reading the Forum the problem for me is (as far I understood) No European and Oceanic ATC procedures. Jos

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"7. RC allows you to hand off functionality to a virtual co-pilot which is a fun twist. Won't find that on VATSIM."i'd just ask my Girlfriend to sit next to me... and she even provides 'inflight entertainment'... :s bet RC can't simulate that :(Looks to be a neat product actually. if only i'd have enough money..;(flying is expensive :()1 big question i'm gonna ask here: do you have actual other traffic with it, like does it give traffic advisories, you can look and actually see the designated aircraft like the standard FS2K2 ATC does? would be neat to have that combined with the good RC procedural expansion.Cheerio

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Shooter,I'm a VATSIM junkie also and while I agree there is nothing better than sharing airspace with RL fellow pilots and controllers, there is one thing that RC can gurantee that VATSIM cannot ...24/7 coverage ;)

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yes we do traffic advisories when other ai aircraft are too close vertically or horizontally.

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