Hi Rhett,<>Yes, it can't just be a coincidence. The memory bus must be a big factor in FSX but not in other games which is why manufacturers can probably save money by restricting it to 256-bit. I'm not sure how much a bigger memory bus pushes up the price but judging by the lack of 384-bit cards quite a bit probably.<It feels like a mistake because my frame rates are suffering compared to the 8800 cards. I researched all the components for my system thoroughly and everything else is great but I do feel I rather rushed into buying that card. Perhaps I should blame PC Pro(UK) for their "world's fastest graphics card" pronouncement!:-roll I thought I had discovered the latest, greatest card. Sadly not. I would be hopeful of getting a decent price when I advertise it as it's excellent in many other games apparently.The latest post from AMD is a bit vague I dont have an update at the moment, I know its being looked at however. Not very encouraging. I have given them a deadline of Friday to come up with something positive. Continued references to nVidia on their support forum may have a galvanising effect but I'm doubtful a driver fix will improve things. I think it's that memory bus limitation unfortunately.<>Oh dear. I'm not jumping fron the frying pan into the fire am I? What specifically do you not like? Don't the 174.74 drivers with nHancer in this discussion help? http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=38633&page=2Cheers,

>>Oh dear. I'm not jumping fron the frying pan into the fire am>I? Well, overall I'd say no. :)>What specifically do you not like? Occasional flashing clouds. nVidia's slightly inferior IQ as compared to the AMD cards. nVidia's (seemingly) deaf ear to the FS community in their driver updates.Good thing is, I have not seen any purple water (shader problem) yet with this 8-series card.>Don't the 174.74 drivers>with nHancer in this discussion help?>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=38633&page=2>Last time I checked, 174.74 is not a WHQL driver. I will not put a beta driver on a machine that I am in "establishment" mode on--I'm just getting this new machine running and established the way I like, and I need as FEW VARIABLES as possible. Running a beta driver is a variable. Running a WHQL driver , at least I know I have a better chance of having no issues related to running a beta driver--I can look elsewhere for the cause of any issues I may have.I saw that thread and follow it with interest; I may end up using the 174.74s with this new nHancer. Not sure yet. I just want to get the E8500 tweaked out first and move slowly and deliberately.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

Hi Rhett,Thanks for your reply. Nothing there deters me from considering the 8800GTX. Although I don't see flashing clouds or purple water with the 3870X2 the poor frame rate in heavy cloud is depressing with such a powerful processor.I'd liken it to a sprinter having his legs shackled with long chains. Long enough to allow him to run but just enough to stop him hitting full tilt. I think the 8800GTX - even with its driver issues - does most of the important things well.BTW, I never wait for WHQL drivers. I'll try the latest that come out and if they improve performance I stick with them. It costs a lot of money to have drivers certified and that process takes too long. It's easy enough to deinstall and revert to older versions if need be.Cheers,

>>http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo...roductID=789608>>It seems to claim 512 bit memory for hd 3870 x2,and 9800 gx2 ->or am I confused.>256 x 2 = 512each gpu has a 256-bit mem interface.each gpu has 512 mb of memory to work with.I think that's dishonest of them to say it has a 512-bit interface.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

Hi again,<>I'm not familiar with that term. I did use a utility that removed all traces of ATI drivers before installing later ones so that is about as safe as it gets. Increasing AA with the 3870X2 definitely impacts on FSX and this is borne out by TomsHardware tests. AF doesn't seem to have any negative impact.<>With processors the decision is easy. You just buy the fastest processor you can't afford! As for graphics cards it's something of a lottery if you do your own research. It seems we have to rely totally on TomsHardware for our information. No-one else uses FSX for tests. That is a pain in the bum! It would seem I can't trust PCPro(UK) either after their ludicrous claim.I just want to get this resolved asap and get back flying instead of writing about hardware problems.:-roll

I've been looking around various UK sites today for decent prices on a 8800GTX. I've found a site near me in Manchester that has the XFX GeForce 8800 GTX Extreme for the ridiculously low price of UKP164.49. That's about 300USD. A year ago it was over 400UKP.Rhett, I know you have the BFG but that is over 100UKP more at 270UKP and difficult to justify! :-eekUnless anyone has serious reservations regarding XFX then I think I'll go for it. The clock rate is 600MHz, the same as the BFG as far as I can see. Any reason why I shouldn't go for this bargain?

Hi Ray,if we're really talking about thishttp://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku...manufacture=XFXvs. thishttp://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku...%20Technologiesthen a UKP100 difference indeed is a good deal. Interestingly, it's the opposite here in Canada. I paid the equivalent of UKP200 for the BFG 8800GTX OC whereas the XFX is around UKP250. Both cards have received good reviews so I don't think there's much of a qualitative difference. In fact, the XFX is rated as 1.9GHz memory clock whereas the BFG has 1.8GHz. Don't know whether the cards differ much in dimension and layout, which you should be able to find out via Google searches.Cheers, Holger

Thanks Holger. Yes, it's the same card as the one you pointed to. Regarding size, it will be replacing the huge Radeon 3870X2 and as they are about the same size that shouldn't be an issue.As to the difference in price maybe that's down to manufacturers discounts to retailers I suppose.With the new 9800 cards reveiving luke warm reviews it seems there's never been a better time to get a 8800GTX. :-hahCheers,

>Hi again,>><other app interfering with your AA and AF. I had a problem>with my 8800GTX at first, with nHancer. My frames were HALVED>for some reason, and it is a problem that I am still trying to>diagnose.>>>>I'm not familiar with that term. I did use a utility that>removed all traces of ATI drivers before installing later ones>so that is about as safe as it gets. Cross-installed drivers is the term used to describe the situation where parts of the old driver are still present. If you used a reputable driver cleaning program then it sounds like that wasn't an issue.>>I just want to get this resolved asap and get back flying>instead of writing about hardware problems.:-roll I'm flying, not tweaking right now. I have virtually clean install right now, and I just bought and installed the CLS DC-10 into FSX. Last night I did a test flight in it, and I am pretty impressed. Of course I came from a 3700+ which was a solid performer, it's just no Core2. So yes, I am flying with the e8500, not tweaking. Maybe next week I'll get to tweaking it.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

Hi Rhett,<>I think it was DriveCleaner. It certainly cleared out all references to Radeon drivers. It should work for nVidia too.<>That's the ticket! :) I'll be flying again soon because tonight I ordered the XFX GeForce 8800 GTX XT Edition 768MB DDR3 PCI-E, 600mhz for the bargain price of 164.49UKP. The offer runs out on Friday and I suspect there might not be any more available after that. In some places they're going up because retailers are trying to shift 9800GTXs and the low price of the 8800GTX is making them more difficult to shift.Have fun tweaking but don't remember to fly occasionally! :-beerchug

>Last time I checked, 174.74 is not a WHQL driver. I will not>put a beta driver on a machine that I am in "establishment">mode on--I'm just getting this new machine running and>established the way I like, and I need as FEW VARIABLES as>possible. Running a beta driver is a variable. Running a>WHQL driver , at least I know I have a better chance of having>no issues related to running a beta driver--I can look>elsewhere for the cause of any issues I may have.>>I saw that thread and follow it with interest; I may end up>using the 174.74s with this new nHancer. Not sure yet. I>just want to get the E8500 tweaked out first and move slowly>and deliberately.>>>Rhett174.74 is WHQL certified for Vista 64-bit at least:WHQL certified driver for the following GPUs: GeForce 9800 GX2 GeForce 9800 GTX GeForce 9600 GT GeForce 8300 GeForce 8200 GeForce 8100/NVIDIA nForce 720aNVIDIA nForce 730a

Well I had a Dell Gift Card that came with my system when I bought it, and I wanted to use it for 2GB more RAM. Unfortunately Dell doesn't sell the memory I need, (Corsair Dominator's) so I looked for other things I could use it on, and came across the 9800GTX, whiich was on sale from $329 to $289US. They also had free shipping, so after finding Tomshardware review of it and saw the performance boost over my 8800GT in FSX, I decided to go for it, so I ended up paying only $110.00 for it ($89+tax). I figure if it doesn't work out, I'll just put it in my other system which does need an updated card, if it is as fast as they claim, I'll put the 8800GT in my other system. It looks even though this card has the 256bit Memory interface, it still has a rather high memory bandwidth 70.4GB/s, only the 9800gx2, 8800gtx and 8800ultra has higher, add that to a higher texture fill rate of 43.2billion/sec vs 39.2B/sec for the 8800ultra, and 36.8B/sec for the 8800GTX, is probably why the card is posting faster in FSX. I didn't have much if any (maybe a little around New York) of a problem with blurries, but with an increase of 13B/per sec texture fill rate over the 8800GT (57.6B/sec), it should be even better.

Kevin,Had you benchmarked the 9800GTX yet? My 8800GTX has probably developed a fault and the retailer has no more stock of it. However, they do have plenty of 9800GTX cards. I know TH showed the 9800GTX faster than the 8800GTX but an independent opinion never does any harm.Cheers,

Yes, I have finished benching it over the weekend and have analyzed the data, and made some charts. I just need to upload the graphics and post. It is faster than the 9600GT and the 8800GT, although not by much (like less than 1 fps). When I go home for lunch I'll let you know for sure.

Thanks Kevin. I'd really appreciate that. Also, your overall impression of the 9800GTX would be helpful. I'm a little concerned that the smaller memory bus (256 v 384 for the 8800GTX) may have some detrimental effects even though the fps remain high.The lower memory (512 v 784) is also a slight concern. With FSX needing plenty I wouldn't want to go backwards with higher frame rates but slower texture fills etc.Cheers,