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Guest shihan

Wilco/FT - Possible copyright issue?

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Take a look at this picture from Airliners.NET:http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0939055/LNow take a look at these panel shots from the Wilco/Feelthere A320:http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6145/20...09rc5.%6A%70%67http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9615/20...50ql5.%6A%70%67http://www.wilcopub.com/wilcopub_images/im...kpit6.%6A%70%67http://www.wilcopub.com/wilcopub_images/im...kpit4.%6A%70%67http://www.wilcopub.com/wilcopub_images/im...kpit8.%6A%70%67You can nearly do a pixel by pixel comparison... they are identical ( but resized ). They even left the registration in there to confirm it. The lighting exactly the same ( be it day time or night time ) Inop gauge, slightly crooked inset on the "TERR ON ND" button... etcVery suspicious. Any comments?

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When I was designing my own 737 panel, I used several shots from airliners.net. But I didn't release mine; it's strictly for my own use at home.Basically this is a useless reply :) Except to say that I can see the value in copying images from airliners.net for use in panel designs, even though I can't comment on the ethics or legality.

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>When I was designing my own 737 panel, I used several shots>from airliners.net. But I didn't release mine; it's strictly>for my own use at home.>>Basically this is a useless reply :) Except to say that I can>see the value in copying images from airliners.net for use in>panel designs, even though I can't comment on the ethics or>legality.That isn't quite as bad... these guys released commercial software. There is definately a legal issue here.

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Why would you buy this plane anyway when Airliner XP's is coming out soonish? With the modeler from flight scenery we all know it'll be brillantly modeled....and reality xp guagues? what more do I need to say...theres a lot of good reputation behind the Airliner XP A320....why not just hit Wilco where it hurts? In the wallet wait a little and buy the superior product.Dreamfleet+reality xp+flight scenery quality = :)Besides..I heard airliner xp's modeling/flight dynamics was so accurate..they modeled the passengers farts. Minus the smell thank goodness

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>Why would you buy this plane anyway when Airliner XP's is>coming out soonish? With the modeler from flight scenery we>all know it'll be brillantly modeled....and reality xp>guagues? what more do I need to say...theres a lot of good>reputation behind the Airliner XP A320....why not just hit>Wilco where it hurts? In the wallet wait a little and buy the>superior product.>>Dreamfleet+reality xp+flight scenery quality = :)>>Besides..I heard airliner xp's modeling/flight dynamics was so>accurate..they modeled the passengers farts. Minus the smell>thank goodnessAmen to that my man! :)

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You don't know what happened. Did you ever think of the possibility that "maybe" the person who took the photo got compensated, if in fact it is the actual bitmap?Tim

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>You don't know what happened. Did you ever think of the>possibility that "maybe" the person who took the photo got>compensated, if in fact it is the actual bitmap?>>TimHe's been contacted and he was not even asked permission.Sorry I forgot to mention that in the original post.

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all airbus aircraft look the same because airbus designs them that way. besides the ID numbers/letters, 99.9% of people couldn't tell one Abus from anther from inside the cockpit.feelthere had access to real aircraft during their design work. maybe Thomas Cook Airlines was the owner of the source aircraft(s)?it is common practice for FS folks to use a.net and other photo sites for 'source' material. the legalities of this are, as you say, questionable. if we get the blood sucking lawyers involved FS community would have NO repaints and NO aircraft except the FS default.real world examples with copyright: american airlines v. flighsim.com; gulfstream v. all FSing.--

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>all airbus aircraft look the same because airbus designs>them that way. besides the ID numbers/letters, 99.9% of>people couldn't tell one Abus from anther from inside the>cockpit.>>feelthere had access to real aircraft during their design>work. maybe Thomas Cook Airlines was the owner of the source>aircraft(s)?>>it is common practice for FS folks to use a.net and other>photo sites for 'source' material. the legalities of this>are, as you say, questionable. if we get the blood sucking>lawyers involved FS community would have NO repaints and NO>aircraft except the FS default.>>real world examples with copyright: american airlines v.>flighsim.com; gulfstream v. all FSing.>>-->I'm not one to typically jump on the bandwagon here for threads like this, but I'd have to agree that using said pictures for repaints and whatnot ( free distribution ) isn't a real big deal. Using a copyrighted picture directly for a panel of a payware (expensive one at that) aircraft is not just morally wrong but there's definately some legal issues.I'd say that even if they had access to that EXACT airplane, the shadows, lighting and everything else are exactly the same as in that picture. Looks fishy!

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>When I was designing my own 737 panel, I used several shots>from airliners.net. But I didn't release mine; it's strictly>for my own use at home.>>Basically this is a useless reply :) Except to say that I can>see the value in copying images from airliners.net for use in>panel designs, even though I can't comment on the ethics or>legality.That depends.If you use it for personal use, there is probably nothing wrong. If you use it for a freeware panel which is supposed to be released to the public, I would at least ask for permission. That's not only polite, but also saves you from possible legal troubles.Copyright is copyright and no matter whether some stuff is available for free, it is still copyrighted.Using it commercially w/o asking for permission is a big no-no.Even "public domain" doesn't necessarily mean: w/o any copyright. This is only true in the US, but not in many other countries where laws state that you cannot give up all your rights on something you release to the public (yes, that sounds silly, but it is true).

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Yup, the texures/photo are exactly the same. Thats really too bad that FeelThere stooped that low.

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There is no doubt that the bitmap that Feelthere is using is that picture on Airliners.net. The lighting elements are exactly the same, the aircraft number is the same, the "inoperative" placard is the same. Even if Feelthere and this chap used the same cockpit for their material, the chance that the lighting highlights would be in the exact same places would mean that one of the choices below is true:1 - The pilot took the picture and gave it to both the guy who posed the picture at Airliners.net as well as Feelthere.2 - Feelthere was able to get the pilot to fly to the exact same spot at the exact same time of day and bank the aircraft to get the light to shine in the exact same position and exact same instruments as the original photo.3 - Feelthere plagerized that photo and need to compensate the original photographer.It is clearly spelled out at Airliners.net: ..."You may not use these photos on any web page, commercial or non-commercial, for profit or non-profit, without written permission from the photographer. You may however link to the photos in the manner described below..."I hope that Feelthere didn't do that, but if they did, me thinks that the guy who took a nice photo and posted it innocently on Airliners.net is entitled to damages.And IF Feelthere did that then in the same breath talk about software pircacy issues, it would indeed be ironic and hypocritical.But let's not jump the gun and let's see what happens. Accusations of this type have serious reprocussions for all. Feelthere should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. The guy at Airliners.net is a professional photographer so I am sure he can tell.EDIT: I've also emailed the original owner of the picture to get to the bottom of this.

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