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kev4242

ATC when flying IFR and charts

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Apologies if this has been answered in other posts although I could not find a definitive solution. How do people fly IFR whilst using SIDs and STARs without ATC vectoring you away from the published approaches and departures. I have found that you can retune to the next ATC station and just not make contact to avoid losing IFR following. However, whenabouts should I resume ATC communication to get landing clearance without being vectored around? Should this be when established and on final approach or earlier? Thanks!

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Hi,FS ATC can cooperative if you build your flightplan according to RW charts and share it as much as possible with FS ATC. Here is what I do:Firstly, I start my flight as VFR, once I know which runway is active, I go back and create an IFR flightplan in FS with a SID. ATC will vector you correctly once you're airborne.STARS are a different matter. I retrieve the METAR for the destination airport before the flight and plan my arrival according to the active runway (per wind direction). After takeoff I let FS ATC clear me to my CRZ altitude. Once I'm there I don't contact the given center at the handoff. This is mainly because I do something else during the flight instead of sitting in front of the screen.Prior to the TOD, I recontact ATC and ask for a lower cruise altitude. (I usually start to descend a little early). About 50-80 NM out ATC clears me to the active. This is where I go to the approaches in the menu and look for a transition that already exists in my standart terminal arrival. Most of the time it is there (the odds are higher if there is a VOR or NDB). I ask for that approach and everything goes fine.Once you reach that transition ATC will give you the final clearance to the runway, the long one with altitude and tower freq.Before, I used to recontact ATC at 10K feet and it would clear me the active without any problems. Of course the first one is more realistic, not entirely but better.The downside is, between the TOD and clearance ATC may insist on a few vectors, I just ignore them.Regards

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That's a great reply Onur.I have a question and forgive my interruption here.When creating flight plans in FS with SID's and STAR's , how do you input them?Do you have to search for the intersections in map view and drag the red line to them?Also, do you use current RW charts and if so do you often find discrepancies between them and the FS database?Thanks for your input.

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That's a great reply Onur.I have a question and forgive my interruption here.When creating flight plans in FS with SID's and STAR's , how do you input them?Do you have to search for the intersections in map view and drag the red line to them?Also, do you use current RW charts and if so do you often find discrepancies between them and the FS database?Thanks for your input.
No problem at all,I do exactly as you say, find the intersections and just drag the redline. It's pretty easy to locate the fixes, a little time consuming but easy.My charts are about 1-1.5 years old. Unfortunately there are discrepancies, mostly when RNAV SIDS and STARS are involved. In these cases I try to get the route as close as possible to the RW one. I prefer to fly conventional procedures with the occasionnal RNAV once in a while for fun.Happy landings

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No problem at all,I do exactly as you say, find the intersections and just drag the redline. It's pretty easy to locate the fixes, a little time consuming but easy.My charts are about 1-1.5 years old. Unfortunately there are discrepancies, mostly when RNAV SIDS and STARS are involved. In these cases I try to get the route as close as possible to the RW one. I prefer to fly conventional procedures with the occasionnal RNAV once in a while for fun.Happy landings
FYI: you can easily add/move waypoints as needed, to match your charts.Just another one, of a thousand great features, the "ACES" gave us.RJ

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FYI: you can easily add/move waypoints as needed, to match your charts.Just another one, of a thousand great features, the "ACES" gave us.RJ
Exactly how does one do this? I believe there is a program, but haven't been able to locate it. Please let us know.Thank you.Jim D.

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Exactly how does one do this? I believe there is a program, but haven't been able to locate it. Please let us know.Thank you.Jim D.
I'm sorry, I should not have said "you can easily" add/move waypoints.Adding new waypoints is easy but moving existing ones, which are part of a Jetway/Airway can be a challenge.I'm not aware of a program which offers to do this easy, but you can do it the hard way. To create or move waypoints, you should get the FS9 bglcomp sdk which provides the bglcomp compiler and a good description of the rules.http://download.microsoft.com/download/b/9...comp2_setup.exeHere is a "waypoint template" I use and works. The "Waypoint template" looks like this when you open it up with notepad<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 12/14/2008 --><FSData version="9.0" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd"> <Waypoint lat="50.249717" lon="-121.845169" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON"> </Waypoint></FSData>To create a new waypoint, edit the "waypoint template" with all the required info and then save. Refer to the "FS2004BGLCompSDK.doc" found in the SDK to better understand the required fields. Rename the waypoint template to something meaningful, then drag and drop the xml file on the bglcomp.exe (found in the SDK). Place the bgl that was just created into your scenery folder. You should now see your new waypoint in FS2004 MAP or GPS.If you're trying to move a waypoint that belongs to a Jetway or Airway, you'll have to do a lot of work to move it. I had to move some waypoints in BC that were wrong, and thus had to rebuild the Jetway and Airway associated with the waypoints. Best to read the SDK about routes. Here is my BC fix that moved a couple of waypoints, and included Jetway/Airway info which should give you an idea what needs to happen. [<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 12/14/2008 --><FSData version="9.0" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd"> <Waypoint lat="50.226667" lon="-121.500000" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="VIDRI"> </Waypoint> <Waypoint lat="49.675944" lon="-122.493203" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="JANEK"> <Route routeType="JET" name="J486"> <Previous waypointType="VOR" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YVR" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> </Route> <Route routeType="JET" name="J527"> <Previous waypointType="VOR" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YVR" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V338"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="MODDY" altitudeMinimum="2590.8"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON" altitudeMinimum="4267.2"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V338"> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="MODDY" altitudeMinimum="2590.8"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V317"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON" altitudeMinimum="4267.2"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="MODDY" altitudeMinimum="2590.8"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V349"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="SHARD" altitudeMinimum="2895.6"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="GARRE" altitudeMinimum="4267.2"/> </Route> </Waypoint> <Waypoint lat="50.249717" lon="-121.845169" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON"> <Route routeType="JET" name="J486"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="JANEK" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> <Next waypointType="NDB" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YKA" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> </Route> <Route routeType="JET" name="J527"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="JANEK" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> <Next waypointType="VOR" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YNY" altitudeMinimum="5486.4"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V338"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="JANEK" altitudeMinimum="4267.2"/> <Next waypointType="NDB" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YZA" altitudeMinimum="3535.68"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V317"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="GUCHY" altitudeMinimum="3535.68"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="JANEK" altitudeMinimum="4267.2"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="B10"> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="STOAN" altitudeMinimum="3535.68"/> </Route> </Waypoint> <Waypoint lat="49.776667" lon="-121.393333" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="IKBAK"> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="B22"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="HE" altitudeMinimum="3048"/> <Next waypointType="NDB" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YZA" altitudeMinimum="3048"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="V304"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="BOOTH" altitudeMinimum="3048"/> </Route> </Waypoint> <Waypoint lat="50.500000" lon="-120.988333" waypointType="NAMED" magvar="0.0" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="STOAN"> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="B10"> <Previous waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="LYTON" altitudeMinimum="3535.68"/> <Next waypointType="NDB" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YKA" altitudeMinimum="2377.44"/> </Route> <Route routeType="VICTOR" name="B27"> <Previous waypointType="NDB" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="YZA" altitudeMinimum="2865.12"/> <Next waypointType="NAMED" waypointRegion="CY" waypointIdent="ICOLA" altitudeMinimum="2865.12"/> </Route> </Waypoint></FSData>RJ

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Thanks all. Exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks all. Exactly what I was looking for!
I am new to using FS9. On their boeing 737-400 how do you input into the fmc for approaches etc? Thanks for any information

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I am new to using FS9. On their boeing 737-400 how do you input into the fmc for approaches etc? Thanks for any information
Georgia Bill, if by "their" 737-400 you mean the "default" one included in FS9, then the bad news is that it doesn't have a complete FMC. However, it will follow a flightplan created on the built-in flight planner (Lateral navigation only). If you have received IFR clearance for your flightplan from ATC, then after taking off you can switch the "Nav/GPS" switch on the panel to "GPS," and then select the "Nav" function on the autopilot, and it will steer the aircraft from waypoint to waypoint. You have to take care of the altitude/flight level yourself.Bill

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RJ
There's a 100X easier method of adding new waypoints in FS9. It's called Facility Editor and it's freeware located in the Avsim Library. Facility Editor allows you an interface to add new waypoints based on the PMDG airport files (SID/STAR), or you can add non-SID/STAR waypoints by simply creating a text file with the fix name and GPS coordinates. You can add new navaids too, but I only tried it once and ended up using EasyNavs (also in the Avsim Library). EasyNavs allowed me the ability to edit an old VOR that was moved and renamed, plus remove an NDB that is no longer around here in AZ.Anyhow, for the Facility Editor, simply drag a PMDG airport SID/STAR file for the airport you want to update onto FacilityEditor.exe (or copy and paste) and it'll add all the new waypoints found in the new navdata by comparing the new waypoints to the default FS database. You don't need a PMDG product, just the new(er) SID/STAR files found at Navigraph or other places.If new waypoints or RNAV waypoints are desired that aren't found in the SID/STAR files, you simply create a text file and use the format Facility Editor needs to complete the same process.Here is a sample of my latest additions for a new STAR into KORD. I name the text file AFIX.txt and reuse it for each new additions by clearing out the old waypoints and adding new once to rebuild each time.FIXESFIX EMMMA LATLON N 42 53.070 W 84 34.840FIX LTOUR LATLON N 42 50.960 W 84 55.100FIX DITCA LATLON N 42 44.840 W 85 43.000 FIX WLTER LATLON N 42 41.190 W 86 03.070FIX RHIVR LATLON N 42 38.760 W 86 16.240FIX PAITN LATLON N 42 33.660 W 86 43.360FIX WYNDE LATLON N 42 27.350 W 87 06.610FIX FIYER LATLON N 42 23.870 W 87 19.270FIX ERNNY LATLON N 42 20.320 W 87 32.050 ENDFIXESThat's all you need, then copy and paste or drag onto the Facility Editor exe file and watch it work. When it's done it gives an option to write to disk (e), then it'll create a new BGL file and add that file automatically to the FS database and make a copy of it in your Facility Editor directory. Close the app and your done. Very easy IMO. Points to remember, you must use GPS format coordinates, so if you can't find them in GPS format, then they need to be converted. Most RNAV charts and some SID/STAR charts will have the GPS coordinates at each waypoint. You can get coordinates from a couple places, but I get mine from the wpNavFIX.txt file in your FS9 FMCWP folder, which is a Navigraph AIRAC file. Search for the waypoint, then convert the coordinates to GPS using this wonderful site: http://boulter.com/gps/ which allows you to see in a map view so you know it's located right.It may seem time consuming, but adding a few fixes at a time is really quick once you do it a couple times. For Navaid editing or removal, use EasyNavs. It is so easy and fast, plus you can do a lot with it. Like I said, I added the SPI VOR in Illinois by renaming the old VOR that SPI replaced and removed the SDL NDB which is no longer in Scottsdale, AZ. It just opens the default database navaid file for editing and rebuilds a new one. Replace the old with the new. Save the old in case of a screw up, but otherwise it's easy.I've never had to move waypoints, and moving routes seems pointless to me. I create my own flight plans by dragging to each fix, so I don't use the routes. I have my own charts too.

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