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camaflight

Doubts about buying due to bad airac cycles from Navigraph

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Hi, I have the PMDG NG 600 through 900.The 600 and 700 I have had for many years now adn 800-900 quite som time too.They are awesome, no doubt, in all respects.My favoourite plane is the MD-11 though. And I really have been waiting for the PMDG MD-11 to come out.I went back to the FS2004 again, but now FS9-version of this 3-jet is released.However, one thing is still keeping to hold on with buying. The reason for this is that I hardly am able to fullfill flights with the NG's due to bad airac cycles from Navigraph. All the time goes into fixing bad or adding missing data in the airac cycle . In fact I haven't bothered to upgrade since cycle 811. The NG's are nice to use because they are convenient to use now and then when work and family causes limitation in time to spend on this hobby. However, sadly enough I get stuck with almost every flightplan I choose programme into the FMS due to buggy data, faulty coding or missibg SIDs and STARs in the cycles from Navigraph.I have adressed an issue there as I was recommended to do so from this forum, but they don't bother to give any answer.So my question is, how is the Navigraph cycles function with MD-11 ? Is there still as many missing or buggy data as allways or has the quality of Navigraph become better ? I mean it is out of question to buy any MD-11 if Navigraph can't manage to provide us with SID and STAR data for f-ex Frankfurt EDDF which is one of the busiest airports in Europe and also figures on the top world list. This has been the case. In addition comes all the minor airports for which I have encounterd faulty data strings in the cycles.How is the situation now, and for MD 11 in particular ?Carl

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I use Navigraph for the 747X and haven't had any issues with SID/STARS so far, though I have not flown into frankfurt, however no problems into and out of LFPG EGLL EDDH ESSA OMDB and even OICC! And many more in the US and europe, there is bound to be the odd mistake with so many procedures but nothing that's game breaking for me so far.I also would not base my buying of a plane on supplied procedures from Navigraph, it is nice to have updated procedures however you can fly with out of date ones 95% of the time with no problems (the only time you would need up to date procedures and even then its not esstential would be online flying on say VATSIM) To even have the option of up to date procedures is pretty amazing in my opinion.Paul

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I also have a problem with the MD11. The Phuket airport "VTSP" exist on the 747X database but not on the MD...Hope it's gonna be fixed.Benjamin

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I reviewed the navigraph sidstars for EDDF and found that it would be a waste of time for me to create my own custom set... what is the problem at EDDF?

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I've probably done 10-15 flights into/out of EDDF with the MD-11 and don't remember having any issues at all.

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Dan could you please check VTSP ?Benjamin
I'm not exactly sure what problem you're having with it, but I just loaded it up in FSX and everything seemed fine.

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I'm not exactly sure what problem you're having with it, but I just loaded it up in FSX and everything seemed fine.
I tried with the airac 901 and 903, all the sids and stars procedures are missing for this particular airport.No problem at all with the queenBenjamin

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Thanks for the answers on my question !Just for the record the EDDF problem was an example as it was duiscussed on the Navigraph forum and it was stated by one of the Navigraph staff members that a lot of data for that and other airports wer missing in the cycle.I totaly agree that one simply has to expect some faulty data from such a complex data base as an airac cycle. However, my experience is that it is some buggy or missing data almost all the time.Well, what's my conclusion then.......hmmm-- :( -what the heck, I agree, I don't stop buying this plane because of bad Navigraph quality, I simply stop buying Navigraph cycles and jump into left seat with the one cycle I have and fix that over time.That's it ! :( Thanks !Carl

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I tried with the airac 901 and 903, all the sids and stars procedures are missing for this particular airport.No problem at all with the queenBenjamin
I just tried VTSP in both 737 and MD11 with no problem (cycle 0903). Note that there are no STARs but it has SIDs and Approaches.As for EDDF, I checked the arrivals against charts from Eurocontrol online and thought they were very thorough. I must have missed something. Also, I have always had a good response from Stephen who is behind the terminal procedures at navigraph... just sometimes he is away for a day or two, which is okay.

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Thanks Dan and MikeI double check with both plane, no problem with PMDG. I remember flying VTSP star with older airac...BenjaminPS : Sorry for previous posts, I tried before :- VTSP>VTBD, SIDs are ok.- VTBD>VTSP, no STARs, its very weird when you see the number of SIDs. I don't understand Navigraph.- Me flying on VTSP with STARs before, just the beginning of alzheimer...Benjamin

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As for Phuket there were stars back on 2005 charts but on charts I saw for 2008 - none at all, just arrival points for the approaches so I guess low level airways to them.Only airport issue is LFPG but a post by Francois had a modified file as there were too many sidstars for the MD11.As for US ones, Dan releases modified sidstars for these on avsim and they are damn good too.Planepath has some UK ones but I find the Navdata ones ok for them really.On occassion a bug crops up in the airac but pretty rare now. Personally I look for charts online so I have an idea of where the sid goes or the star arrives from.(Just don't try vord22 at NTAA - fsx will freeze for some obscure reason that's being looked at)John E

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As for Phuket there were stars back on 2005 charts but on charts I saw for 2008 - none at all, just arrival points for the approaches so I guess low level airways to them.
You are right, I just saw that on the 2008 version, this is weird for a medium size airport to go from multiple STARs to none... :( Do you know the reason of that ?Benjamin

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I just tried VTSP in both 737 and MD11 with no problem (cycle 0903). Note that there are no STARs but it has SIDs and Approaches.As for EDDF, I checked the arrivals against charts from Eurocontrol online and thought they were very thorough. I must have missed something. Also, I have always had a good response from Stephen who is behind the terminal procedures at navigraph... just sometimes he is away for a day or two, which is okay.
This means then that the newer airac cycle is better ???? The problems with EDDF and a lots of more airports were for some of the previous cycles, we can probably track the threads about it. However, as I said I, and it's sure not only me, have encountered bad quality with the cycles. OK, and as regards getting answer from Stephen, it's not a question of days of delay or weeks, but in my case months. So I reposted my issue in different sections in Navigraph forum to be sure I hit the right one. I did that over a period of some weeks I can recall. No answer at all. It was a question about faulty code strings for approach data to LOWK-Klagenfurt Austria. I did choose this airport randomly for my issue which was more generally as I found more airports to have these code strings that made the FMS to "totally" disagree. After fixing the strings myself by building them up again from the charts it was all fixed. It's just that I'm disapointed about it all, because I'm looking forward to have a nice flight with my NG and it all ends up in using all the time +++ with correcting faulty coding or adding missing data. In reality the whole process differs really too often from what I expect. On top of that it does'n't help that Stephen do not even bother to respond on the issue.Well, enough of that. I bought the PMDG MD11 15 minutes ago. As I said I am going to use my old cycle and fix it over time, abandoning the Navigraph's new cycle offers. I'm disapointed with Navigraph, but not with PMDG. I would however have welcomed some competition to Navigraph.Carl

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For US/UK there is Terry Yingling's sidstars at planepath.com and for custom US locations (68) I publish monthly sidstars in the AVSIM library (author = dan downs in extended search and sort by date). I get about 600-700 hits a month. The downside is if you have current sidstars you usually need current navdata if for nonething else than runway number changes. We had quite a few of these last year due to new runway construction in the US.Your's is the first unresolved complaint I've heard about navigraph, thanks for the feedback.

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For US/UK there is Terry Yingling's sidstars at planepath.com and for custom US locations (68) I publish monthly sidstars in the AVSIM library (author = dan downs in extended search and sort by date). I get about 600-700 hits a month. The downside is if you have current sidstars you usually need current navdata if for nonething else than runway number changes. We had quite a few of these last year due to new runway construction in the US.Your's is the first unresolved complaint I've heard about navigraph, thanks for the feedback.
Thanks a lot Dan,I really don't want to be a nuisance with this, but it makes no sense using any PMDG planes of mine entering a buggy flightplan into the FMS.To avoid making kind of negative vibrations about this I should perhaps adress Stephen in Navigraph directly to sort this out versus them. I don't have the slightest idea why they haven't responded to my three atempts over three monts adressing them with my issue.First of all now I have to cross my fingers to finally succeed with downloading the MD11. Starting with my 6th attempt now as the link got broken on the first 5.......I have about 15MB line but it takes so iiiincredible long time downloading. :( Carl

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