Black/disappearing textures? Some bizarre news ...

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Wait, so you guys HAVE seen this on other products besides PMDG? (Nico said he saw it on a host of planes) That would tend to rule out anything in our code being responsible if it's not isolated to our airplanes...

Ryan,For me it has only been the PMDG 747x & MD-11. I own other payware a/c such as LDS-767, Wilco/FeelThere/Just Flight 737, Nemeth MD-500, etc. The issue of corrupted graphics has ONLY appeared on PMDG products on my setup, so far.Jay

Ryan: I've only seen it on PMDG planes: the 747X and the MD11. I also use the LevelD 767X.Jay: I might be on to something: can you do me a favour? Try updating to the Nvidia 185.85 drivers (if you haven't already). Then go to the Nvidia control panel and do two things:(1) Make sure your "Program settings" for FSX are MANUALLY set to copy the "Global settings".(2) For both Global and Program settings, set "Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration" to "Compatibility performance mode".Then try with "Sound on".Let me know what happens.Tim

Will do, Tim. I'll get back to you later on with results.Jay

[tfm 169]

Ryan,For me it has only been the PMDG 747x & MD-11. I own other payware a/c such as LDS-767, Wilco/FeelThere/Just Flight 737, Nemeth MD-500, etc. The issue of corrupted graphics has ONLY appeared on PMDG products on my setup, so far.JayWill do, Tim. I'll get back to you later on with results.Jay

Jay - I'm off to bed, but my guess is that what you've just done WILL NOT work.If not, bear with me.Now add this to the mixture: In the FSX.EXE Properties page, go to the Compatibility tab and select to "Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)"Now try again.In my case, this combination seems finally to have worked on ALL my test flights with "sound on". Who knows, it may all be broken again tomorrow morning: but at least I can go to sleep in the fond hope that I might at last be able to put this thing behind me.Tim

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay - I'm off to bed, but my guess is that what you've just done WILL NOT work.If not, bear with me.Now add this to the mixture: In the FSX.EXE Properties page, go to the Compatibility tab and select to "Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)"Now try again.In my case, this combination seems finally to have worked on ALL my test flights with "sound on". Who knows, it may all be broken again tomorrow morning: but at least I can go to sleep in the fond hope that I might at last be able to put this thing behind me.Tim

Tim,Ok, I have some results from my test flight using 185.85 drivers, compatability mode and setting FSX.exe to "Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)"It's good news and bad news...First, the good news. It seems to have worked for the graphics corruption issue. I completed my test flight, went into menu a number of times, landed, went to instant replay and back a few times, no graphics issue at all. :( Now, on to the bad news. I had some fairly serious stuttering throughout the entire flight that was definitely NOT present prior. When the stuttering was happening, the frame counter didn't really waver much (I'm using FPSLimiter @ 30), but it was pretty bad. Secondly, at the end of the flight, after using instant replay, back inside the 2D cockpit the IP became unresponsive. I could click on the switches, knobs, etc, and you could hear the clicks, but they didn't move or operate the assigned function. :( Dunno... Anything similar happening on your setup?Jay

[sargeski 16]

Now, on to the bad news. I had some fairly serious stuttering throughout the entire flight that was definitely NOT present prior. When the stuttering was happening, the frame counter didn't really waver much (I'm using FPSLimiter @ 30), but it was pretty bad. Jay

Jay,I'm going to make an educated guess that your were running in DX9 mode with the 185.85 drivers. There is something very wrong with the 185.85 drivers that causes the DPC Latency of PCIe bus to go through the roof with FSX. This will translate into severe stuttering, and audio popping/crackling within FSX. If you are running in DX9 mode stick with the 182.50s for right now. The 185.85s seem to work ok in DX10 Preview. The 185.85s were rushed out. Many beta testers were reporting problems with them but they got the Nvidia seal of approval anyways.Before you change your drivers download the DPC Latency Checker tool from the following site, run the tool, and run FSX in windowed mode and observe your Latency. If your latency goes into the red area of the graph you will have stuttering and audio issues. Try both DX9 and DX10 Preview modes and you will see the DX10 Preview does not have the latency problem.http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtmlRegards,Bob Modrowski

[tfm 169]

Tim,Ok, I have some results from my test flight using 185.85 drivers, compatability mode and setting FSX.exe to "Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)"It's good news and bad news...First, the good news. It seems to have worked for the graphics corruption issue. I completed my test flight, went into menu a number of times, landed, went to instant replay and back a few times, no graphics issue at all. :( Now, on to the bad news. I had some fairly serious stuttering throughout the entire flight that was definitely NOT present prior. When the stuttering was happening, the frame counter didn't really waver much (I'm using FPSLimiter @ 30), but it was pretty bad. Secondly, at the end of the flight, after using instant replay, back inside the 2D cockpit the IP became unresponsive. I could click on the switches, knobs, etc, and you could hear the clicks, but they didn't move or operate the assigned function. :( Dunno... Anything similar happening on your setup?Jay

Jay - No, I'm not getting the stuttering (yet) & I haven't ever used the 2D cockpit. One step at a time, I guess.What about getting rid of the FPSLimiter and experimenting with the bufferpools setting? I'd start by deleting the FSX.CFG file and letting FSX build a new one.Or - as Sargeski suggested - see if you can get it to work with the older drivers.Tim

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay,I'm going to make an educated guess that your were running in DX9 mode with the 185.85 drivers. There is something very wrong with the 185.85 drivers that causes the DPC Latency of PCIe bus to go through the roof with FSX. This will translate into severe stuttering, and audio popping/crackling within FSX. If you are running in DX9 mode stick with the 182.50s for right now. The 185.85s seem to work ok in DX10 Preview. The 185.85s were rushed out. Many beta testers were reporting problems with them but they got the Nvidia seal of approval anyways.Before you change your drivers download the DPC Latency Checker tool from the following site, run the tool, and run FSX in windowed mode and observe your Latency. If your latency goes into the red area of the graph you will have stuttering and audio issues. Try both DX9 and DX10 Preview modes and you will see the DX10 Preview does not have the latency problem.http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtmlRegards,Bob Modrowski

Sarge,Wow, pretty interesting that nVidia released these drivers as "nVidia Recommended" and they still have all those problems you mentioned. I'm definitely going to try that latency tool and report back with the results. I'll try it with the 185.85s just to confirm your findings, but then I'm gonna roll back to the 182.50s and try to get it running with my PMDG a/c.

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay - No, I'm not getting the stuttering (yet) & I haven't ever used the 2D cockpit. One step at a time, I guess.What about getting rid of the FPSLimiter and experimenting with the bufferpools setting? I'd start by deleting the FSX.CFG file and letting FSX build a new one.Or - as Sargeski suggested - see if you can get it to work with the older drivers.Tim

Tim, After many hours of tweaking, I have settled (for the moment, anyway) on these settings as they work best for me: TBM @ 90, BufferPools @ 350, FPSLimiter @ 30. That gets my sim running smoother than it ever has. I'm gonna try Sarge's suggestions first, then I'll try to go back to the 182.50s and see if it'll work using compability mode.Jay

[tfm 169]

Tim, After many hours of tweaking, I have settled (for the moment, anyway) on these settings as they work best for me: TBM @ 90, BufferPools @ 350, FPSLimiter @ 30. That gets my sim running smoother than it ever has. I'm gonna try Sarge's suggestions first, then I'll try to go back to the 182.50s and see if it'll work using compability mode.Jay

JayFurther experiments here have indicated that we might be able to take control back from the FSX AA and AF settings.Try this with the 185 series drivers:1. Using the Nvidia control panel, choose multi-monitor performance.2. Using nHancer 2.5.1, on the compatibility tab for Global and FSX Program options, disable the High Dynamic Range option and select Single core for CPU Multi Core support. [i do not know if any of the other options are critical: they don't SEEM to be, but obviously I haven't tried all possible permutations.]3. Change the FSX.EXE compatibility setting to Windows XP SP3.4. Make sure any addons (eg, Active Sky Advanced, FSInn etc) have the same compatibility settings [i don't know if this is important yet - it might not be].So far, I am getting excellent results this way.Tim

[jaybird1nyc 24]

JayFurther experiments here have indicated that we might be able to take control back from the FSX AA and AF settings.Try this with the 185 series drivers:1. Using the Nvidia control panel, choose multi-monitor performance.2. Using nHancer 2.5.1, on the compatibility tab for Global and FSX Program options, disable the High Dynamic Range option and select Single core for CPU Multi Core support. [i do not know if any of the other options are critical: they don't SEEM to be, but obviously I haven't tried all possible permutations.]3. Change the FSX.EXE compatibility setting to Windows XP SP3.4. Make sure any addons (eg, Active Sky Advanced, FSInn etc) have the same compatibility settings [i don't know if this is important yet - it might not be].So far, I am getting excellent results this way.Tim

Sounds good, I'll give it a go. Although, I'm not sure if I can keep the 185.85s due to the stuttering issue. In any case, I think I'll try Sarge's suggestions first, re: latency issues with the 185.85s, then possibly move back to the 182.50s under compatability mode. I'll check back later with results...Jay

[tfm 169]

Sounds good, I'll give it a go. Although, I'm not sure if I can keep the 185.85s due to the stuttering issue. In any case, I think I'll try Sarge's suggestions first, re: latency issues with the 185.85s, then possibly move back to the 182.50s under compatability mode. I'll check back later with results...Jay

Jay - Don't bother with my fancy nHancer suggestion. It worked up to a point, but failed eventually. I'm sticking with my earlier solution, which remains solid so far as I can tell.By the way, if you've tried with nHancer, you may have trouble getting back to square one. It interferes somehow with the Nvidia control panel (it enables a new "feature" on the "global" page of the Nvidia control panel, called "Global presets", which prevents turning on the Compatibility performance mode for FSX). I had to uninstall the card from the device manager, choosing to delete the driver files, and use driver sweeper repeatedly before rebooting then reinstalling the 185.85.Tim

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay - Don't bother with my fancy nHancer suggestion. It worked up to a point, but failed eventually. I'm sticking with my earlier solution, which remains solid so far as I can tell.By the way, if you've tried with nHancer, you may have trouble getting back to square one. It interferes somehow with the Nvidia control panel (it enables a new "feature" on the "global" page of the Nvidia control panel, called "Global presets", which prevents turning on the Compatibility performance mode for FSX). I had to uninstall the card from the device manager, choosing to delete the driver files, and use driver sweeper repeatedly before rebooting then reinstalling the 185.85.Tim

Ok, so if I'm following you correctly, I'm going to try leaving the driver settings in nVidia control panel as is, except for global settings and compatability mode. Leave the driver at 'Application Controlled' for AA and AF, then use FSX AA and AF. Also, I'm leaving FSX on XP compatability mode. Is that correct?Jay

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay,I'm going to make an educated guess that your were running in DX9 mode with the 185.85 drivers. There is something very wrong with the 185.85 drivers that causes the DPC Latency of PCIe bus to go through the roof with FSX. This will translate into severe stuttering, and audio popping/crackling within FSX. If you are running in DX9 mode stick with the 182.50s for right now. The 185.85s seem to work ok in DX10 Preview. The 185.85s were rushed out. Many beta testers were reporting problems with them but they got the Nvidia seal of approval anyways.Before you change your drivers download the DPC Latency Checker tool from the following site, run the tool, and run FSX in windowed mode and observe your Latency. If your latency goes into the red area of the graph you will have stuttering and audio issues. Try both DX9 and DX10 Preview modes and you will see the DX10 Preview does not have the latency problem.http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtmlRegards,Bob Modrowski

Sarge,Just finished my test of the 185.85s using tha DPC Latency app while running FSX in windowed mode (DX9). My latency never got above the green, not once during the entire flight, although the serious stuttering was happening all along. Also, I didn't, nor have I ever had any audio issues like you mentioned. I didn't try running in DX10 mode since there didn't seem to be any point.Gonna uninstall the 185.85s, run driver cleaner a few times, and re-install the 182.50s and start over.And for my next trick...Jay

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Jay - Don't bother with my fancy nHancer suggestion. It worked up to a point, but failed eventually. I'm sticking with my earlier solution, which remains solid so far as I can tell.By the way, if you've tried with nHancer, you may have trouble getting back to square one. It interferes somehow with the Nvidia control panel (it enables a new "feature" on the "global" page of the Nvidia control panel, called "Global presets", which prevents turning on the Compatibility performance mode for FSX). I had to uninstall the card from the device manager, choosing to delete the driver files, and use driver sweeper repeatedly before rebooting then reinstalling the 185.85.Tim

Tim,Ok, first test flight was a success. Went into various menu items, switched back and forth between VC and 2D cockpit, landed, went to instant replay, ALT-ENTER a few times. I was unable to trigger any corruption after all that. Also, after uninstalling the 185.85s and re-installing the 182.50s I was able to eliminate those stutters and I was back to my previous graphics, image quality, and smoothness. Just to re-cap for anyone else who may be experiencing these issues, I am running the nVidia 182.50 driver and selecting 'Compatabilty Performance Mode' in the nVidia control panel under Manage 3D settings. I also have left it in 'Application-Controlled' for AF and AA and selected 'Vertical Sync - Force On'. Then I have set FSX.exe compatibilty tab to 'Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)', and set in-game filtering to Anisotropic and checked Anti-aliasing. Obviously, by not using nHancer we're losing some IQ, but that's not the critical point here. It's getting these a/c to run as they were designed to under Vista/DX9 for those of us having these graphics corruption/blackscreen/transparent texture issues.Looks good so far, we'll see...Jay

[tfm 169]

Tim,Ok, first test flight was a success. Went into various menu items, switched back and forth between VC and 2D cockpit, landed, went to instant replay, ALT-ENTER a few times. I was unable to trigger any corruption after all that. Also, after uninstalling the 185.85s and re-installing the 182.50s I was able to eliminate those stutters and I was back to my previous graphics, image quality, and smoothness. Just to re-cap for anyone else who may be experiencing these issues, I am running the nVidia 182.50 driver and selecting 'Compatabilty Performance Mode' in the nVidia control panel under Manage 3D settings. I also have left it in 'Application-Controlled' for AF and AA and selected 'Vertical Sync - Force On'. Then I have set FSX.exe compatibilty tab to 'Run this program in compatibility mode for: Windows XP (Service Pack 2)', and set in-game filtering to Anisotropic and checked Anti-aliasing. Obviously, by not using nHancer we're losing some IQ, but that's not the critical point here. It's getting these a/c to run as they were designed to under Vista/DX9 for those of us having these graphics corruption/blackscreen/transparent texture issues.Looks good so far, we'll see...Jay

Yes, that's it. I tried to summarise it here:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=249930On the one hand I'm pleased to have found a working solution at last, but on the other hand I must admit that I'm disappointed that there's this problem which seems to be unique to PMDG's products. As consumers we shouldn't have had to work this out for ourselves. It is an un-documented problem, it took months of trial and error to find a solution, the solution involves compromising on various things, and when it occurs the problem itself represents a serious blemish on PMDG's otherwise-excellent products. It keeps cropping up: here's another user reporting these problems:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=249970I understand PMDG's reluctance to acknowledge that this problem has anything to do with their code - see Ryan's intervention in this thread, the only word from PMDG that I can remember on this oft-reported problem - but I do think this stance is increasingly unrealistic and that they should attempt to provide a "built-in" solution and/or take up the cudgels with Nvidia.Tim

[jaybird1nyc 24]

Yes, that's it. I tried to summarise it here:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=249930On the one hand I'm pleased to have found a working solution at last, but on the other hand I must admit that I'm disappointed that there's this problem which seems to be unique to PMDG's products. As consumers we shouldn't have had to work this out for ourselves. It is an un-documented problem, it took months of trial and error to find a solution, the solution involves compromising on various things, and when it occurs the problem itself represents a serious blemish on PMDG's otherwise-excellent products. It keeps cropping up: here's another user reporting these problems:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=249970I understand PMDG's reluctance to acknowledge that this problem has anything to do with their code - see Ryan's intervention in this thread, the only word from PMDG that I can remember on this oft-reported problem - but I do think this stance is increasingly unrealistic and that they should attempt to provide a "built-in" solution and/or take up the cudgels with Nvidia.Tim

Tim,After some further testing, I am getting some problems returning. I had some successful flights with the MD-11, but then I started getting a black screen after landing and using instant replay. It's not the same flashing graphics issue I was having, but a totally black screen. I tried ALT-ENTER numerous times attempting to restore the screen, but that didn't work and I was done. I then tried the 747 and I did get one or two successful flights before the same issue cropped up. Unfortunately, it appears the problem is not fixed on my setup.How have you been fairing? Any problems at all since your last report? I know you were able to keep the 185.85 driver, maybe that's part of the solution. If you recall, I tried the 185.85s but I was getting some serious stuttering problems that forced me to revert back to the 182.50s.If you come up with anything, please let me know. I'm feeling kinda stuck (again!)...Jay