I'd be intrigued to know what the extra printed material contained too, since I was too cheap to buy it!With regard to the 'not fully supported' bit about VNAV Path, as far as I can gather, it refers to the FMC supposedly being an emulation of the 10.7 software (or thereabouts) on the Smiths Industries FMC, but it does not do everything the real thing can do when it has that software upgrade.VNAV does work, but doesn't do all of the stuff the real thing does when calculating the descent path and usually defaults to VNAV Speed. So it will descend or climb your aircraft as per the FMC waypoints, and it will maintain speed restraints based on your Cost Index and speed constraint settings for each flight plan waypoint (although the Cost Index range should be wider than it is and is incorrect on the Ariane NGs), but it won't descend on a specific vector like the real FMC is theoretically capable of.What all that means is that VNAV in the Ariane 737 is a bit more like it is on a Classic 737 than it really is on an NG.Al

Having somehow survived my first real flight, I would guess the printed material tells you how to use the HUD. The documentation that comes with the product leaves a lot to be desired.I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, which was kind of fun. I could get the ILS tuned and DME showing up, but never got anything resembling a recognizable localizer and glideslope. I manually flew an approximation of the STAR, and was pretty much clueless on approach. Very low ceiling, so when I finally popped out I was left to a visual, which was fun. It is a good-flying airplane.The best I can figure out, the printed material (which would come to a minimum of $73.00 for color with shipping) would provide at least the following "bonus" information not available in the documentation that comes with whatever product it was that I bought. Some of it looks pretty important to me. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to buy the extra printed material, too, in order to have all features documented. I suppose I can work everything out on my own eventually, though, except for weird stuff like the -6000 pounds thing.Airplane GeneralOperational LimitationsNarrow RunwayCrosswind (winglets non winglets)ElevationsWeight LimitationsMin/Max Takeoff WeightsAir Systems PressurizationAnti Ice and RainAutopilot/Flight Director SystemFAA JAA Options - headwind/Tailwind etc.FIeld Elevation Flap SettingsHUD SystemCommunicationsAddresing and ReportingAFM and Non AFM OperationEngines and APUIgnition Thrust and ReverseFlight ControlsFlight Management and NavigationFuel System NotesLanding GearLong Range Cruise ChartsGround to AIr Miles ConversionCritical Fuel Reserves ChartCreated WaypointsConditional WaypointsBearing entriesFixed DataGuide to NavDATAFMC NavDATA Editing ToolAdding NavDATATypes of NavDATAExamplesI'm still not sure if I got the latest & greatest of their offerings with my 800 (not counting, of course, their "bespoke" version that is fully customizable and not aimed at us, judging by its price). Because here's what I read about an "OPs" version. So I don't know if the 900 ER represents an advance over the 800 or not. Features like ground crew comms are not present on mine, but are on the OPs version, I think. Come to think of it, maybe Ops isn't out yet.The Highly-Anticipated native FSX version of the Boeing 737-900er has been astounding crews around the world since its roll out. A comprehensive, state-of-the-art package for crews seeking more for growing simulation requirements; to advance skills in extended range familiarisation and to practice mission-intensive routing. We introduced 'OPS' - the new development taking software toward 100% operational ability - with the 900ER X but intend to take the project a step further to a 100% operational target. The OPS project is one of the most anticipated to be developed by a Flight Simulator Developer Company. Finally, on the VNAV issue, I'm glad to hear that, since I was under the impression after reading the provided material that VNAV should be best avoided on descent and flight level change should be used. "Path Descent is not fully supported so select LVL CHG to EXECute the DESCent phases of the flight by entering each ALT change given as directed by ATC or as shown on the FMC."

"Alan Bradbury's comprehensive and fact-intensive review is widely and eagerly anticipated by the most knowledgable and respected flight simulation crews worldwide."

"Alan Bradbury's comprehensive and fact-intensive review is widely and eagerly anticipated by the most knowledgable and respected flight simulation crews worldwide."

Where did you get that from?By the way, Ariane put up a new NOTAM on their site, and they again speak of the airlines expansion stuff, and they claim these are airlines for just about all 737 series. If you go to the Airlines tab of the menu on the left-hand side, you only see liveries for the 800 series, and nothing for the other 737 series. Do they also count in the Airline Upgrade Packs available for all series they produce? Anybody actually understand what they are doing concerning these liveries?

I subtracted 6000 lbs from my listed gross weight and it accepted it.

This is the famous "Gross Weight Input" problem. It's dealt with at length in another earlier thread. Essentially, the problem occurs when the plane is too heavy - the FMC doesn't accept the input. Whether that's real life FMC behaviour, I have no idea. Somewhere in one of the threads is the actual value for maximum allowable weight.The Ariane documentation is completely useless in this respect. It's full of red herrings, for example telling you to put in three decimal places when the FMC only allows one decimal place; reminding you that the weight is decreasing, even while you put the data in, because the APU is running. One of the FAQ's even says that you should press "Pause" while entering the data, to get round the last problem!BTW, don't look for any response from "India Knight" - she's a figment of the Ariane marketing department imagination.

There they go with that hyperbole again it seems LOL - I notice it doesn't say 'AVSIM's review'. Wait while you get on the Ariane forum and try typing the word 'AVSIM' in a post, and you'll see what I mean. :( Frankly Tim, if you want a good manual for the 737, I'd either consider getting Chris Brady's Boeing 737 Technical Manual or one of the other suggestion below. Despite the title, Chris Brady's book is written in a very readable style and has a lot of info about flying all models of 737; it even includes a chapter about how to do a proper Air Test for an airliner, which I think comes pretty close to being a 'must have' if you are reviewing stuff, so it is well worth it for that (by the way, home come your name is not in green since you are a reviewer? You want to email Robert Whitwell about that). In addition to Chris Brady's website and book, this site is worth a look, and there are some manuals available from there: http://www.b737mrg.net/ Another one worth having, and regarded very much as a '737 Bible', is Bill Butler's 737 Cockpit Companion, which you can find here: http://www.transair.co.uk/product4.asp?SID...;Product_ID=781I don't wish to sound mean to Ariane, but I think they've had enough of your money already LOL, so give some of those manuals a look instead!With regard to getting the ILS to pick up and do a proper autoland, make sure you do the following: Both NAV radios tuned to the ILS frequency, Both Course Dials with the magnetic heading of the runway dialed in, Both flight Directors switched on, Correct pressure setting displaying on the PFD. Line it up with VOR/LOC on single channel A/P, preferably with less than a 30 degree offset from the extended centreline, come at the glideslope from underneath and hit the APP button when you are about 1 Dot away from being in the pipe for the glideslope, then hit both CMD buttons at about 1,500 feet AGL. As it comes in on automatic, you can play with the HUD modes and see what they display (note that there are two control panels for the HUD, one on the HUD mount itself and one on the central pedestal, just below the throttles).Al

BTW, don't look for any response from "India Knight" - she's a figment of the Ariane marketing department imagination.

So is 'Bob Hale' who was invented to hide Peter Tishma when he set Ariane up. ....and people wonder why Ariane is so 'secretive' and 'insular'?Toni.

Well, for all I know India Knight could be PT's cross dressing alter ego on weekends, I simply don't know about that side of things.Despite the traumas with PT in the past, one of the discussions I got into with AVSIM's reviews editor when suggesting that I do a review of their 737, was related to whether there was any continuing animosity between AVSIM and Ariane that would prevent it happening. Robert (AVSIM reviews Editor) assured me that was not the case and that if I bought the thing then it could be an AVSIM review, so that's what I did (Ariane prefer to have people come down to them and have the products demo'd as opposed to sending review copies out apparently). Ariane for their part, when they learned of my review plans in short-circuiting their preferred methods, were concerned that I was not simply interested in raking them over the coals, which I'm sure many detractors would have been happy to see me do.An interesting side issue to me choosing to do a review, was that I thought it was high time we had a fair review of Ariane's 737 which went beyond trawling up past battles with PT and various incarnations such as Papa Tango, so although I would not want to deny that some of that was indeed unsavory, I don't think it really does any good to keep trawling it up.There is a great need for a 737 NG for FSX for many users, we are waiting on PMDG's efforts on that score, but in the meantime the Ariane incarnation is available, so that is what I personally prefer to focus on. Ariane are indeed insular, but when people cannot let the past go, in some respects you can hardly blame them for being that way. It is my hope that the review I did can at least go some way toward moving us all on from there; a backward-looking perspective on that score can only be bad for flight simming at large, and I'm prepared to believe that anyone (even PT) can change, but we need to change too if that's going to happen, and all credit to Robert Whitwell for allowing me the opportunity.Al

Yeah, Al, your'e right. Searching for AVSIM on the Ariane forums is funny! Good god. It's hilarious, how on AVSIM everybody says "kill Ariane" and how at the Ariane forums everybody says "kill AVSIM". Well okay, I'm putting it a bit strongly, but that's the impression you get.As for "Bob Hale": he's a great guy, actually. He's one of the tech-supportisch people at the Ariane forums (let it be known he doesn't actually belong to Ariane, he is a volunteer tech support member), and he helps wherever he can. His answers are good and useful, precisely what we need.

Actually, I was just having a little fun with the review quote. I was merely putting how many are looking forward to Al's review into the kind of language one might find in Ariane's website. I think it would be fun to have something like Talk Like a Pirate Day, only all posts would have to be written in over the top prose in honor of Ariane's only-too-easily imiitable style. It should have been more like:"Famous aviation expert and flight sim author Alan Bradbury's comprehensive and fact-intensive review is widely and eagerly anticipated by the most knowledgable and respected flight simulation crews worldwide. It is no secret that he has taken it upon himself to lavish considerable praise upon our astounding products. Of all the flight simulation publications across the globe, there are some that are enjoy the utmost in fame and respect, and are, in fact number one in every crew's minds. You will be glad to know that all of the number one simulation websites have given Ariane products nothing but the highest marks for astonishing realism and detail-intensive operational experience. When we said Simflight was the biggest and most respected website, that was merely an example setting the mark for the other biggest and most respected website, AVSIM, each of whom are bigger and more respected than the other, even as Ariane is the ultimate in achievement with regard to realistic Boeing 737s as evidenced by actual* Boeing pilots being trained exclusively on the Ariane Ultra Ops Bespoke edition which goes beyond the 100% realism previously aimed for and moves towards 150% realism and matchless fidelity to Boeing concepts that are only now being met in real life by airplanes that have yet to fly. Enter the world of Ariane, and opporunties may exist to begin your 737 experience with the very most advanced models possible and continue into the future with OPs edition and other optional time-limited properties (available for a limited time) with advanced realism (available on many advanced models only) either now or as development reaches the even further high water mark of success."Come on, try it. It's easy and fun! All future posts in this thread should be like this. No? Well don't blame me for my astounding sense of humor that is appreciated by crews with the the most developed sophistication and entertainment value-added toward 100% and in a direction, now, of even really toward 100% laughing.And no, I don' believe there is an "India Knight" person, and have commented before that I think she is a clever marketing creation, or would be, if her apperance signaled a radical change in the way they do business. I think she is the pilot in the 737. Her or Boy George, not sure.I don't see how a 737 with 999 lbs per full row, 10,000 lbs each in the cargo bays, and no fuel at all in the center tank, could be considered overloaded. I had thought I had read all the Ariane threads, but I guess I missed some. The GTOW bug might be known to some, but I wish it had been a little more famous :-) I'll dial down the weight further and see what happens. (I read all the posts after my purchase, not that it would have made any difference.)I already have Mike Ray's book on flying the 7 series on order, which will certainly serve me well with some of my other add-ons. I suppose he doesn't cover the NGs? Chris Brady's site is excellent, and I will keep him in mind. Unfortunately, you're right in that I have given Ariane enough money: enough that my aviation budget is dry and not likely to be tapped again until Illinois has a budget and my future paychecks are assured.It looks to me like we have a decent, if overpriced, airplane that offends mainstream simmers' sensibility by charging for liveries and necessary documentation. So far, the key words are "decent...airplane," because it does seem to actually deliver on reasonable expectations and even exceed them in some regards, along with the inevitable problems one usually can find. The problem is, I have currently lost confidence in the company, and now believe that even if I were admitted to their website, or bought their "bonus" material that contains essential information one ordinarily expects to receive as part of the purchase price, I would still not receieve honest help.But all that means is that I have to figure out things on my own and with help from others here, and what I can pick up elsewere. Captain Sim is notorious for not going out of their way to be helpful (here I really have to hand it to Coolsky's MD 80 Super Pro, where I don't think I've ever posted anything without getting a respectful and useful response with in hours, if not instantly). Even so, Captain Sim's 757 and 727 are both my favorite airplane (stop it already) so I am willing to acknowledge a tasty apple, even if I have to avoid the worm.So they have a long way to go in the PR department, first realizing that PR is useless unless you swallow your pride and go out of your way to address the very things that have put you in the doghouse in the first place. For example, if activation has been an issue, they should meet industry expectations with instant activation whether they like it or not.I am glad Al's review addresses the "bridging" elements. I'm sure everyone really wants to know whether personnel changes have been as complete as we have been led to believe. I, too, believe that companies and people can change and there is no value in constantly dredging up the past. The trick is knowing when they have changed and when they say they've changed and haven't much. And sometimes it is simply impossible not to dredge things up during a transition period when people are going to have the before and after pictures in mind no matter what. The omission would simply be curious, like a parole hearing where no mention was made of the original crime. To my mind, any new story involving Ariane has to be to some extent a rehabilitation story. I was uncomfortable with my 757 review not talking frankly about the bad buzz, because, like it or not, that was part of the story by that time. Similarly, the brand name Ariane itself is something that people are going to want to discuss.I doubt I would have started another Ariane thread had I fully appreciated all the history and how many have gone before. But, on the other hand, this has remained largely focused on the merits of the new airplane, and only recently diverged into the current discussion, which is still not marked by reflexive hatred.I find it interesting that there is a Captain Sim and an Ariane thread one above the other on an AVSIM forum, with people actually talking about the products for the most part. Surely this is a very positive sign. *not all of whom are currently active as pilots (Sometimes what's going on around you is more entertaining that what's on the computer.)

I didnt see anything about VOR inop in any of your reviews of cs757 - was that your sense of humour also?jlm

Now this is thread creep, and came across a bit tart. If you have substantive issues with my Captain Sim review independent of an Ariane discussion there is a forum to address that. If I had trouble with VOR I would not have concealed it, and if I had noticed it as a major issue under discussion, I would have addressed it to either confirm, non-repeat or work around.Is it possible I could have missed something? Sure! I only use VOR as cross checking my FMC navigation, and not very religously at that, as compared to the 727, where I am, of course, using it as my primary navigation. (Of course, to the exent the localilzer on approach is VOR-like, that too.) Is this still about the FS9 version, by the way, which you know I didn't review?

I spent years writing advertising copy, I've had my fill of doing that sort of thing LOL. It's even worse than being a journo at a newspaper. You should try doing leader paragraphs for newspaper opening paragraphs if you want to get into unintentionally hilarious writing.You might like this joke on that score...It's a new journo's first day on the job at a city daily newspaper and he is thrilled. However, his hopes of an exciting first story are dashed early in the proceedings at the morning briefing, as the editor assigns all the cool stories to the seasoned hacks and leaves him with the job of updating the death notices (this really happens by the way). So he is left in the empty office with only the editor sat some distance away from him and all the other hacks out pursuing leads. But, within half an hour, the Associated Press feed starts chattering away urgently with a breaking news story in the very town where his paper is based, outside he can hear ambulance and fire engine sirens racing to the scene of an incident. Both he and the editor rush over to the AP desk and see that news is coming in of a plane crash in their town, an airliner has come down in the main high street!The editor races into action, but he has only our new journalist to cover the story. 'Okay son, I'll be busy clearing the page plan for this, you've got a two o'clock copy deadline and you're the only writer I have to hand. That gives you three hours to get down to the crash site, check it out, get back here and write up the story for the front page and five pages on, I want at least 2,500 words and we'll get the photographers down there to spread it over five pages around your story. Get to it!'Our new journo can't believe his luck; getting to write the lead story on his first day! So, he races to the appalling scene of carnage at the crash, takes it in, interviews a few people and hastens back to the paper. He has two hours to spare, and so sets to writing about the appalling tragedy in his best journalese style, with all the cliches about 'fleets of ambulances' racing to the scene. He also remembers to include such journo favourites as 'doomed jetliner' 'plunged to destruction' and of course 'black box crash recorder'. Satisfied that he has written a corker of a story, he plonks a print on the editor's desk. At which point the editor erupts into a fury.'What the effing hell is this?' the editor fumes. 'Didn't they teach you anything at journalism college? Newspaper stories have short snappy opening paragraphs, yours is way too long! There were scenes of tragic horror in the main high street today when... yawn. I'm asleep already. Re-write the opening paragraph, make it short and snappy, and be quick about it!'Slightly disappointed, out hero snatches back his story with the less than stellar opening paragraph and goes to his desk to chop that first paragraph down. He is loathe to edit any of it out, but does so and returns to the editor with his revised version.'No! No! and No!' fumes the editor. 'I want a short paragraph for the opener. The subs need to put it in 15 point text at the start of the story. If they do that with yours, they'll be halfway down the goddam page! Make the opening paragraph short!'Our hero trudges back to his desk somewhat crestfallen but determined to come good. He is really disinclined to chop out any of his writing, but he gives it a shot. With less than ten minutes to spare to copy deadline he returns and the editor reads his revised story intro with a short opening paragraph.'Dead (new paragraph). That's what over two hundred people were, when scenes of tragic horror...'Al

As for "Bob Hale": he's a great guy, actually. He's one of the tech-supportisch people at the Ariane forums (let it be known he doesn't actually belong to Ariane, he is a volunteer tech support member), and he helps wherever he can. His answers are good and useful, precisely what we need.

Actually, you're wrong. He's been quoted on the Ariane website in the past as Technical Director (or very similar).But in truth, all that's irrelevant because you don't pay the sort of money charged for Ariane's products because of who's behind Ariane and how many persona they can conjur up - you pay that money for the enjoyment (or otherwise) of flying their planes. If they tick your boxes, great. If not, you may think again next time.Notwithstanding Al's forthcoming review, and Ariane's checkered past and questionable current PR, I do believe that in time people (including Avsim) will solely be interested in the product rather than the people (unless something new happens....).My two cents worth? Enjoy it while you can Ariane, because I suspect that when PMDG release their long-awaited rendition of the 737, you'll have a lot more to worry about than hiding Peter Tishma.Toni.

That's a great story. Aside from my CS 757 (which is apparently short fiction in some minds) I have tried shopping around novels I've written. What I've learned is that decision makers (who are already on the bottom of the publishing totem pole when they're reading unsolicited submissions by Tim Capps) literally read the first page of each manuscript in the stack on their desk. If they're not excited by something new and different and amazing by the time they get to the bottom, into the trash can it goes.That's why my wife latest read started "It was better than sex." As far as I could tell, it wasn't, but it does get your attention.I doubt Brothers Karamazov would make the cut these days.The only interest I ever received was from an agent who thought I was someone fairly well known for writing racehorse novels whose name I happen to share. I shouldn't have correct the impression until I had inked something. Suddenly my writing wasn't as good as she thought it was.Of course, now that I'm an AVISM reviewer (green or not) I expect them to really snap to attention.