So I think we need to make sure that they work for us and not the other way around. Otherwise, they're going to do what ever they want and never include a 2D panel when they make new aircraft because they don't have to. They have their fingers on the impulse of flight sim consumers.Mark

I have noticed your slightly negative skepticism in quite some threads here lately Mark, but I have to agree with you on the quote above. Companies who don't deliver 2D panels have lost me as a customer, and the the only way I'm able to vote, is with my thin wallet.But when it comes to FSDT scenerys, I just know they WILL deliver.

The thing we want to be wary of is being consumers. Personally, I'm not a consumer, I'm a person. So being a person, I would not like to give up the only control I have, which is where I spend my money. Companies spend tons or time and cash trying to break that down so I spend on impulse rather then on what I actually need. The enjoyment becoming the spending of money rather then getting something that is actually useful or even wanted in some cases.So while I'm like all you guys, it would be great to have every airport in Hawaii, (I fly there often), I think that we can be doing a monumental injustice to ourselves when companies find out that we're dumb enough to do their advertising for them. Geeze, they haven't even released the thing and we're already hailing it as the next greatest thing to the wing!So I think we need to make sure that they work for us and not the other way around. Otherwise, they're going to do what ever they want and never include a 2D panel when they make new aircraft because they don't have to. They have their fingers on the impulse of flight sim consumers.Mark

You know what Mark, I had intended to keep this civil and respect others opinions but when you come right out and call myself and anyone else who posts for a developer they believe in "DUMB" you just really cross the line from stating your skepticism to insulting us. Your logic makes absolutely no sense either... You are not a consumer, a person... What type of consumer is there other than a person? Don't know too many dogs and cats buying FS gear... Just enjoy your negativity, doubts and insults and leave those of us who want to do monumental injustices to our own accord... I actually can not believe this much negativity has transpired from a post of this nature informing everyone FSDT is doing PHNL... Unbelievable, now I remember why I never try to post in the forums giving information or helping people out. There is ALWAYS someone who wants to argue everything and then come the insults. It just isn't worth it, I hope everyone enjoys PHNL.-PaulPS, by the way the people in the FSDT forums are very excited, their is also a thread in the FSX forum about this as well as Aerosoft and I am sure a number of other forums so you better go rain on everyone else's excitement also...PSS If you are mad at Carenado, please don't use this thread about FSDT as a hijacking attempt to state your displeasure for another developer and their lack of a 2D panel...

psok, I intend to keep this civil too. I think it is dumb of us, (me inclusive), to presuppose that some software is good enough to buy on the recomendation of someone that hasn't used it, hasn't seen it in action, and doesn't own it. So how could anyone possibly know that it's any good. To me, I think this just reeks of hype rather then hard evidence, although, I do appreciate the heads up that it is going to be, maybe is going to be, or there is a possibility that it will be available one day.When, (and if), the time comes that it is available and someone here gives it a thumbs up, it might be a good time to consider it a choice for purchase if you feel you need it. Isn't that what a reasonable person would do, not just a hyped out consumer?Mark

psok, I intend to keep this civil too. I think it is dumb of us, (me inclusive), to presuppose that some software is good enough to buy on the recomendation of someone that hasn't used it, hasn't seen it in action, and doesn't own it. So how could anyone possibly know that it's any good. To me, I think this just reeks of hype rather then hard evidence, although, I do appreciate the heads up that it is going to be, maybe is going to be, or there is a possibility that it will be available one day.When, (and if), the time comes that it is available and someone here gives it a thumbs up, it might be a good time to consider it a choice for purchase if you feel you need it. Isn't that what a reasonable person would do, not just a hyped out consumer?Mark

There is a difference between a hyped out consumer and an informed excited consumer. I carefully weighed all of the evidence and facts available to me prior to posting. Based on the evidence FSDT has provided in the past in the form of stellar releases "I BELIEVE" this is going to be a great release. No reason not to believe that. Until such time where FSDT does something to dispute that evidence and the proof they have delivered with their prior releases I have no reason to believe this will be anything but exceptional. Call me a hyped out consumer if you like and if I was in here saying the next CaptainSim release was going to be awesome and everyone should run out and get it I would agree with your assessment but I believe you do not throw everyone into a common bundle because of what others have done. Certain developers DO deserve our support and I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt until such time as they give me reason not to.I understand your concern but I could not imagine a more glass is half empty perspective. Even if you look at it from a realist , not optimist/pessimist perspective then there is no evidence or reason to doubt FSDT. You have taken your doubts of other developers and are now holding all developers to that same level. Personally, I feel certain developers have PROVEN themselves repeatedly and do deserve our support...I apologize if I leave any out developers but I think we should highlight those developers who have repeatedly met/beat our expectations...PMDGLVL-DFSDTFly-TampaOnCourse Software (Dave March)Hi-Fi-SimFlight1 SoftwareAerosoftEaglesoftThe UT guysthe REX guysThe GEPro guys,FSGenesisand probably so many other who gave me the level of belief I DO have in FS developers by repeatedly proving they will do things right and support us if they aren't..Your logic is like saying that no matter what someone does you should always continue to doubt them until they prove you were right about your doubts... My logic is if someone repeatedly proves themselves they earn the benefit of the doubt. You are only as good as your last anything in life.... That goes for more than just FSI see where you are coming from Mark, and I can sense your displeasure at what some FS developers are doing or have done, I just think you chose the wrong developer to try and cast doubt on in this thread... Cheers,-Paul

This should add to "consumers" enthusiasm: FSDT is discounting 30% till August 31. Check them out.

Ah psolk, I see you picked up on the Captain Sim thing too! So that's 2 that have kind of left us in the dust. I wonder how many other's there have been also? I'll bet we could start another thread and get a nice long list if we want to. That's not the only thing that I'm looking at. It's also the fragility of the FS9 environment that's at stake here. Funky things can happen, lights magically appearing and then disappearing. You know, being 30 miles away from an airport and then experiencing a CTD. It can get pretty time consuming. So, it's not that the FSDT software is going to do that but...Anyway, I like to hear about potential offerings, don't get me wrong, I don't want to take the wind from under anyone's wings. Its just so many of us have been burned before by hype and promises that I've grown to like the reasonable approach of being an informed consumer/human being these days!Mark

What does this mean for KDFW and the long overdue KORD update?

What does this mean for KDFW and the long overdue KORD update?

I, personally, would say nothing with regards to DFW; it sounds like two separate teams are working on each project. No clue about the ORD update, though...hope it's soon. :(

What does this mean for KDFW and the long overdue KORD update?

Mike the team that did klas kjfk and kord are busy with a unknown project after that is done they will begin work on dfw as far as the kord update I don't know I guess maybe they could do that fist then start on dfw. but the phnl team is a different team.

Yeah, but both teams got different products out of the way, long after KDFW was mentioned. I wonder why it has been pushed back.I have since read that for KORD, they're waiting for detailed aerial photos. Me, I wouldn't mind if they faked it a bit.:(As for PHNL, not really on my want list, I do mostly short to medium haul.

As for PHNL, not really on my want list, I do mostly short to medium haul.

That's precisely the reason why we'll do other airports in the Hawaii to be used with it.

Did anyone look at how much these guys are starting to charge for a single airport? Man, that's getting pretty steep. The question is starting to become is it really worth it? I mean, for 35.00 usd I think that they should be doing the entire island landclass as well. My Lago scenery is starting to look pretty good again. I really hope that they don't come back and say something like that's the current market price for high quality sceneries :)Mark

At $33 I wasn't willing to buy ORD. At $22.10 (30% off), I was. Food for thought.

At $33 I wasn't willing to buy ORD. At $22.10 (30% off), I was. Food for thought.

Personally, I think $30-$35 is pretty fair for the level these guys are delivering... You can't expect their prices to be comparable to a BluePrint or someone whose quality is nowhere close to the levels of their work... I see 3 distinct levels of scenery pricing right now when you shop around...BluePrint level $15-$20ImagineSim Level-$20-$26and then FlyTampa, FSDT and the Aerosoft Mega series which usually come in around $30-$35Personally I think that is totally in line with the quality of the developers work. They have also mentioned they are doing additional airports so now there is no question in my mind, as long as the quality is what we expect from FSDT it will absolutely be worth it. Not to mention FSDT do frequently run specials so if you do not feel they warrant $30-$35 for their work then hang out for a sale. No matter what FSDevelopers charge, people will always b*tch and people will always buy, just look at Ariane :( so it is really a mute point IMHO, I don't expect your post will convince anyone to change a pricing model... There are also a lot of people that wont pay $500 for a pair of Gucci shoes but on sale for $250 they might splurge so is that food for thought for Gucci too... Absolutely not, you dictate your price by the quality of the product you deliver and the people that see that value for what its worth will pay. The others can get it on sale :)-PaulPS, Gee if they took 280K off that new Ferrari convertible I might be interested but at its current $300k sticker I just wont do it. Ferrari should consider that too ;) :(

That's precisely the reason why we'll do other airports in the Hawaii to be used with it.

Guess it'll depend on what else you're gonna do. I know back in the day with FS98 or something I used to fly regularly in Hawaii, from what I remember the other airports weren't that big. And that's where my interest lies as well. We'll see.As for their prices, can't really complain about them from the Euro perspective. If your currency is the Dollar, then that would be the problem, the Dollar...:(