re Citation Xhttp://www.eaglesoftdg.com/CitationX_20.htm18:10 GMT 10 November 2009

So what's the problem? Since I stated to Zenra that I would update the site text I've had a death in the family and so it fell thru the cracks while I attended to a few other matters.I also wonder what your interest is if you are not a potential customer or owner? Has the desire to knitpick infected you as well?The site text is now updated. Any other molehills you would like to make into mountains? :(

I finished reading a locked thread here and it made me think of a lot of other recent FSX releases.Customers have A LOT to complain about (I am a customer as well).I was just cruising through about seven different native FSX releases at various sites and boy, there's sure a lot of negativity: They should have made a turbo version... Why does my G1000 crash? The VC looks like a cartoon! My FPS are HORRIBLE! It doesn't work with my goflight hardware....can you make a patch?Frankly I'm not quite sure why devs put up with customers, so darn demanding. It's like a product has to be perfectly bug free on release. Considering not even multi-million dollar grossing software titles are perfect on the first time, why do we expect flight sim devs to put forth an incredible amount of effort for something they might make 1000 bucks on?I think consumers of FSX products should take a step back prior to purchase, and expect something well done - but NOT perfect upon initial release. Oh, and take a deep breath prior to writing something negative - use tact people...

After reading some posts in this thread I must say: Good post Ryan! I agree!

So what's the problem? Since I stated to Zenra that I would update the site text I've had a death in the family and so it fell thru the cracks while I attended to a few other matters.I also wonder what your interest is if you are not a potential customer or owner? Has the desire to knitpick infected you as well?The site text is now updated. Any other molehills you would like to make into mountains? :(

I'm sorry to hear of your bereavement.I didn't begin using the words false, falsehood, honesty and truth in this thread - that was Eaglesoft's supporters. However, some of them could be applied to claiming that an add-on has features it doesn't actually have, don't you think?Maybe not, because you seem to regard being concerned about honesty in advertising as nitpicking or a mole hill."people in glass houses...."

I'm sorry to hear of your bereavement.I didn't begin using the words false, falsehood, honesty and truth in this thread - that was Eaglesoft's supporters. However, some of them could be applied to claiming that an add-on has features it doesn't actually have, don't you think?Maybe not, because you seem to regard being concerned about honesty in advertising as nitpicking or a mole hill."people in glass houses...."

Actually, your behavior is exactly what this thread is all about. Thanks for proving the point! :(

I'm sorry to hear of your bereavement.I didn't begin using the words false, falsehood, honesty and truth in this thread - that was Eaglesoft's supporters. However, some of them could be applied to claiming that an add-on has features it doesn't actually have, don't you think?Maybe not, because you seem to regard being concerned about honesty in advertising as nitpicking or a mole hill."people in glass houses...."

My aunt was 95 and lived a full and prosperous life so it was a celebration of her life rather than bereavment but thanks for the kind words.Neverthess these things do distract because of family interactions and attendance at funeral homes and so I let it fall through the cracks.A reread of my postings to Zenra in that thread will reveal the fact that I was truthful, transparent, and honest there just as I have been here.You've made a molehill [delay in updating the site text] into a mountain [false allegation that I wish to mislead folks and not be truthful in advertizing].The facts in the Zenra thread and here do not support such allegations.The phrase "people in glass houses".... works both ways...

Heck I've noticed in this forum we can't even get the so called "pros" to help a hobbyist with their own projects.

I wonder where many of my 16,000+ posts have been, or my 4,000+ posts at FlightSim, or my 500+ at Flight1, or my 100 at Sim Outhouse, or my 800+ at SimFlight, or my VA forum posts, or our own Forum posts?

I wonder where many of my 16,000+ posts have been, or my 4,000+ posts at FlightSim, or my 500+ at Flight1, or my 100 at Sim Outhouse, or my 800+ at SimFlight, or my VA forum posts, or our own Forum posts?

Jim, you must not be one of them there perfessionals. :(

My aunt was 95 and lived a full and prosperous life so it was a celebration of her life rather than bereavment but thanks for the kind words.Neverthess these things do distract because of family interactions and attendance at funeral homes and so I let it fall through the cracks.A reread of my postings to Zenra in that thread will reveal the fact that I was truthful, transparent, and honest there just as I have been here.You've made a molehill [delay in updating the site text] into a mountain [false allegation that I wish to mislead folks and not be truthful in advertizing].The facts in the Zenra thread and here do not support such allegations.The phrase "people in glass houses".... works both ways...

You appear to be using the sad death of your aunt as a smokescreen to try to hide the fact that Eaglesoft actually made false claims on its site a while ago, before Zenra raised this matter. I fail to see how the later death of your aunt could have affected that. It may have delayed their removal but I never questioned that.Reread my post

From personal experiance:Developers/Producers/Programmers/ and other 'professionals' should not get into a public pissing contest with customers and potentioal customers. You may be replying to one but you can be sure MANY other's are watching and making purchase decisions based on attitude. Explaining is one thing, attacking is another. When you make it personal, it detracts from the message and usually costs you a customer. Users/ Customers/ Potential Customers:Don't expect to buy a $50,000,000.00 aircraft for $50, it aint gonna happen. Developers do their best to put out a product, but there are always going to be problems. It's how those problems are resolved that counts. Unreasonable expectations will always result in dissapointment. That being said, geninue issues need speedy and correct resolutions.In the game I manage, and their associated forums, we direct all problems specific to a player to a support email addy, and only use the forums for general discussions. We do not allow 'dirty laundry' to go public, and our customers and staff appreciate it, it 'keeps the peace' and still allows players to contact us when they have an issue. Your milage may vary but it works for us.

You appear to be using the sad death of your aunt as a smokescreen to try to hide the fact that Eaglesoft actually made false claims on its site a while ago, before Zenra raised this matter. I fail to see how the later death of your aunt could have affected that. It may have delayed their removal but I never questioned that.Reread my post

As I already posted, my aunts death was a celebration of her life, rather than bereavement. I also thanked you for your kind words about that.Now to the crux of the matter. The website has indeed had the now revised text regarding custom waypoints, custom holds in place for a long time.Frankly the list correction was overlooked on my part and was brought to my attention again thru the post by Zenra where I stated that those features are pushed down the road a bit.In addition, I stated that I was distracted over the recent family matters and attendance to the funeral home. Any who've experienced that situation know exactly how other issues than FS take precedence.At any rate, I'm amazed that you could somehow construe these events as a "smokescreen" to justify false allegations that Eaglesoft is somehow presenting false advertizing.This is a new low even from you MGH The oversite has ben corrected, the record is as clear and truthful as I can make it.You've proved the point of our observations throughout this thread. Certain members of this community absolutely love to sow discord and have no regard for descent behaviour whatsoever. :(

As I already posted, my aunts death was a celebration of her life, rather than bereavement. I also thanked you for your kind words about that.Now to the crux of the matter. The website has indeed had the now revised text regarding custom waypoints, custom holds in place for a long time.Frankly the list correction was overlooked on my part and was brought to my attention again thru the post by Zenra where I stated that those features are pushed down the road a bit.In addition, I stated that I was distracted over the recent family matters and attendance to the funeral home. Any who've experienced that situation know exactly how other issues than FS take precedence.At any rate, I'm amazed that you could somehow construe these events as a "smokescreen" to justify false allegations that Eaglesoft is somehow presenting false advertizing.This is a new low even from you MGH The oversite has ben corrected, the record is as clear and truthful as I can make it.You've proved the point of our observations throughout this thread. Certain members of this community absolutely love to sow discord and have no regard for descent behaviour whatsoever. :(

I am not criticising any delay in removing these statements - I am criticising the fact they were made in the first place - a point your reply still doesn't address.Let's stick to the facts:

1. Eaglesoft made false statements on its website
2. Eaglesoft removed them because they were false

Which of these isn't true?

To Whom It May Concern,Then you would not mind posting your true name, your city/state/street address and your home phone number, then? My point is that anyone doing business on the net (including Flt Sim sites) SHOULD post a DBA, etc, just like any other small business. And anyone allowed to post (pro or con) should provide HIS name, address, and phone number. My opinion, of course. (My name, address, and phone number is none of your business (ha)).Chuck BNapamule

OK,Let's play:1. A mistake was made.2. Real world events caused a delay.3. The mistake has been corrected.4. Any customer who was personally hurt or injured by the above could have gotten their full money back 4. mgh is making this to be a bigger deal then it is.Which of these is not true?

I am not criticising any delay in removing these statements - I am criticising the fact they were made in the first place - a point your reply still doesn't address.Let's stick to the facts:

1. Eaglesoft made false statements on its website
2. Eaglesoft removed them because they were false

Which of these isn't true?

Both of your statements are absolutely false.1. Eaglesoft made truthful statements on it's website. The basis, due to delays, [cause to actual performance or delivery] those statements were in effect rendered void.2. Eaglesoft revised the website text to reflect the [changes to actual performance or delivery] and avoid any misleading statements in a reasonable and timely maner.At no time has there been intent to mislead in any statement made by Eaglesoft Development Group. Further to the point. Any Eaglesoft customer who feels that we have mislead them in any fashion are eligeable for a full refund of the purchase price if they so desire.Sorry, your false allegations have no basis and amount to little more than an ugly and transparent "fishing expedition" with ill intent.By the way, are you an owner or potential customer? What exactly is your interest in falsely accusing us?

Both of your statements are absolutely false.1. Eaglesoft made truthful statements on it's website. The basis, due to delays, [cause to actual performance or delivery] those statements were in effect rendered void.2. Eaglesoft revised the website text to reflect the [changes to actual performance or delivery] and avoid any misleading statements in a reasonable and timely maner.At no time has there been intent to mislead in any statement made by Eaglesoft Development Group. Further to the point. Any Eaglesoft customer who feels that we have mislead them in any fashion are eligeable for a full refund of the purchase price if they so desire.Sorry, your false allegations have no basis and amount to little more than an ugly and transparent "fishing expedition" with ill intent.By the way, are you an owner or potential customer? What exactly is your interest in falsely accusing us?

I am not falsely accusing Eaglesoft of anything. But I can see I must be more precise in my questions:

1. Did the Eaglesoft website say that the Citation X supports Custom Waypoints and Editable Waypoints?
2. Does the Citation X support these waypoints?

Eaglesoft cannot deny that the answer to 1 is Yes and the answer to 2 is No so that Eaglesoft did make a false statement. Weasel words like due to delays, [cause to actual performance or delivery] those statements were in effect rendered void really mean that they were rendered false. Also in revised the website text to reflect the [changes to actual performance or delivery] and avoid any misleading statements in a reasonable and timely maner the word avoid really means remove. After all that's what Eaglesoft actually did - it removed the statements.