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Guest TonyPiech

Landing Assistance Princess Juliana (TNCM)

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Guest TonyPiech

I'm having difficulties in setting-up a good landing approach at Princess Julianna Runway 27. I've got no problems when given Runway 9 by the ATC, but when attempting to land from the opposite direction (RNW 27) I have some problem getting my approach aligned with the runway which has heading of 96/264 degrees. The Runway 27 approach has visibility obstructed by a hill/mountain with elevation just under 1500 ft. so it's difficult to see the runway until you clear the hill, I then need a steep descent to reach almost sea level altitude. There's a Fix (EBLUK) east of the Island but it seems worthless for a Runway 27 landing. Do I setup at a higher altitude so I can view the runway and start my descent from a greater distance or should I consider another option? Any advise as to what else I can do to make it easier to land on Runway 27 would be appreciated.

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There doesn't appear to be any approved approach procedure for Rwy 28 at TNCM. FYI, Runways 9/27 are now designated 10/28 at this airport.

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Guest TonyPiech
There doesn't appear to be any approved approach procedure for Rwy 28 at TNCM. FYI, Runways 9/27 are now designated 10/28 at this airport.
Rudi, don't understand where you're coming from, in my FSX the ATC is directing me to land on Runway 27 at TNCM flying in from the East. If there is no approved procedure, why would ATC inform me to fly-in on Runway 27? I have no options to change to a different approach runway in FSX, at least the FSX that's on my computer.Tony

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Rudi, don't understand where you're coming from, in my FSX the ATC is directing me to land on Runway 27 at TNCM flying in from the East. If there is no approved procedure, why would ATC inform me to fly-in on Runway 27? I have no options to change to a different approach runway in FSX, at least the FSX that's on my computer.Tony
What I'm saying is that, for IFR flights, there are no published approach procedures/plates for Rwy 28 at TNCM. The default FSX ATC probably doesn't care about that, but we all know that he's insane to begin with. If you want to fly into this airport as in real life procedures, you won't be using runway 28 (unless it's in a small GA aircraft?). The only approach plates for TNCM are for Rwy 10 and they are all VOR approaches.I leave it to more experienced pilots to advise on VFR flights into TNCM.

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I think the correct thing to do is to ask ATC for a RW9 (well, should be RW10) approach, and then circle to land. In real life, no airliners are allowed to do this (I'm not sure, though, if it's a general restriction or just individual company restrictions) - even in a light tailwind, they'd give you RW10. Heavy tailwind, and you divert. It is possible, though, to fly a traffic pattern in a heavy and land on 27/28, but it isn't easy, and it's rather dangerous.

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Guest TonyPiech
You can do a visual approach in the daytime, if conditions allow. Only rwy 10 allowed at night.http://www.airnav.com/airport/TNCM, look under "Additional Remarks".Probably only relevant for GA aircraft.
Guys, I'm flying a Piper Cheyenne, a GA aircraft from Puerto Rico to Princess Julianna, in the morning, I'm hoping to get Runway 9 from ATC, I'd rather not get Runway 27, but no luck, ATC says Runway 27. I do not get any options in the ATC window to change runways. Is it appropriate protocol (in FSX) to ignore ATC and pick whatever Runway I'd like? I kinda like to follow the rules, but if it's OK to ignore ATC and proceed to Runway 9, then fine. I did manage to land on Runway 27, but it was rather hairy. This leads to another question, on some airports, usually larger ones, I'm given a option to change runways within the ATC communication window, on this one, TNCM, no options are provided, you're given a runway, in this case Runway 27, no options to change a runway are provided. I belive I have FSX configured to the latest state, with Acceleration and have the FlyTampa scenery for Princess Julianna.

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Tony, as per trisager's comment (thanks!), one can fly a GA aircraft like the Cheyenne onto Rwy 28 so long as 1) it's during the day and 2) VMC (visual meteorological conditions) exist. These are specifically defined by country; I'm not sure which definition applies for St Maarten...I suppose that if you can see the runway from 1-5 miles out and you're a mile from the nearest cloud horizontally and 1000 feet from the nearest cloud vertically...go for it. It's going to be a visual approach, obviously, but you could line yourself up for it by using the appropriate radial of the PJM VOR at the airport.I wish I had an answer to your second question, but the default ATC in FSX is a mess; many of us use Radar Contact or VoxATC (both payware) instead, which adds a vastly greater degree of realism to ATC ops in the sim. Radar Contact gives you the option of requesting from the controller a different runway, too.

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the easiest thing you can do is to open the airport in afcad2 and close the relevant rwy for landing. Then the fs9 atc will not give you that rwy for landing.vololiberista

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Guest 413X3
the easiest thing you can do is to open the airport in afcad2 and close the relevant rwy for landing. Then the fs9 atc will not give you that rwy for landing.vololiberista
fs does not recognize closing only one end of a runway

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ATC says Runway 27. I do not get any options in the ATC window to change runways.
the wind is from the 'wrong' direction according to FS's ATC 'engine'. basically the rules are you are given instruction to land on the runway that: is closest to the wind heading, has ILS, and for 'parallel rwys' the one closest to you. beyond that FS just isn't 'smart enough' to follow real-world procedure (ex, crossing rwys; correct local transition altitude for locations outside north america).
Is it appropriate protocol (in FSX) to ignore ATC and pick whatever Runway I'd like?
it is a game. do whatever you want.
I kinda like to follow the rules
go to your local library and collect some books on ATC. read up and just follow your own 'ATC control'. i use ATC as 'advisory information' and fly according to local rules & practice.--

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Guest FSXBuster

Somebody really needs to take a reality check, IT's A GAME - you can do whatever you want, like this:

:(

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Yeah it's annoying. Maybe try Radar Contact? That way you can request 9 and actually land on 9 without circling. Normally circling can be fun but not there. Well, suppose that depends on your idea of fun. :)These days I've just quit using ATC except for taxiing to the runway. I'm tired of the "Hey! You are 1.0 x 10^-393 micrometers off your assigned flight path! Report to your FSDO for waterboarding!" I'd rather concentrate on the flying and enjoy the flight.

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Hello Tony,In the Caribbean, we have what is known as the Trade Winds, predominantly from the East. The result is that you will not normally ever get clearance to land on runway 27, either in Sint Maarten or any other island here. As mentioned, in addition, there is no published approach to that runway at that airport, so please follow the published approaches and avoid killing your passengers when crashing on the mountain.Please set your weather accordingly or dial Real Weather on your FS settings in order to receive clearance to runway 9 (or 10, etc.)While there may be exceptions for small GA aircraft, it is doubtful that any have ever tried landing at runway 27, especially since the runway 9 approach and landing at TNCM is probably one of the easiest in the region, a DME circle and then straight in over the sea without any obstructions (except the foolish tourist on the beach looking to get blown into the water by the jet blast!)Best regards.Luis

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fs does not recognize closing only one end of a runway
Yes it does!! Many of my airports are configured either closed for take off/closed for landing or both!Vololiberista

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I have the same problem! This is really annoying, I'm flying PMDG 737-800 with 121 passengers on board, and the ATC would instruct me to land on visual runway 27.

 

First time when the ATC told me to 'Report runway in sight', I didn't have it in sight, until I crossed the hills, then I requested another approach, visual runway 9, and he told me 'cleared to land on visual runway 9, circle to land runway 27, I just ignored it and landed on runway 9 only to be hit by another air craft on the runway and got my passengers killed :S

 

Second time, I decided to follow the ATC instructions and 'lied' saying I had runway 27 in sight (which I didn't), I tried twice to land steeply after passing the hills, to no avail, even with reducing my IAS. I asked for another approach and was granted visual RW9 Approach circle to land RW 27, of course circling to crash far off the runway, again killing my 9 crew members and 100 passengers and injuring 20, I'm very disappointed :s

 

I think I would try another ATC addon

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I haven't used the FS ATC in many, many years. Too frustrating.

 

IRL, if ATC gives you instructions you can't follow because of aircraft performance or crew comfort level, you just say "unable" and do something else. If you need a runway other than the one they're trying to use, you may have to go somewhere and hang out in a holding pattern until there's a space in the sequence for you to slip in the way you want. But, as PIC, you're in charge of your flight, and responsible for the safe outcome. The guy with the radar and the microphone isn't.

 

For TNCM, if you want to land on 27, practice hand-flying the airplane until you can do the visual. Basic airmanship here... if it can't be done safely in the type of aircraft you're flying, then your airline, in the real world, would have a note somewhere in their policies/procedures/SOPs prohibiting visual approaches to runway 28 at TNCM.

 

A "visual approach" is just a way for you to join a VFR traffic pattern and land the airplane on the runway in use without cancelling your IFR clearance. It frequently includes downwind and base legs on the way to final, and is not the same a "circle to land" maneuver at the end of an instrument approach.

 

Dave

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In real life there are no landings on runway 28 at St. Maarten, sometimes take offs, but never landings, it's always Rwy 10 regardless of the winds. What I do in FSX, after downloading real weather is I go into the advanced weather tab and flip the wind direction around so that ATC will give me Rwy 10.

 

Lee

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