Shimmering....anybodyNOT have it?

[Guest stranex]

So I have changed all my settings in Nhancer 100 times over, reset drivers, sweeped old ones, changd the settings within FS9 and the cfg file but nothing I do removes ALL shimmering in FS9. I still get slight shimmering of some textures and very detailed 3D structures.....for example, departing KSEA on the Northerly runway I see the aerials atop the smaller tower shimmering and likewise, the masts which are just north of downtown Seattle and are visible as soon as you are airborne shimmer in the distance. Another good example are the red cranes in Seattle docks which shimmer when I'm about 1-2nm north of KSEA.I've read many posts about shimmering and have tried them all but they seem to make little/no difference. Maybe I'm being very demanding of a 6yr old game but has anyone here managed to eliminate shimmering (or at least that mentioned above) COMPLETELY? If you have I would be interested to know your setup and hardware so in the hope I can emulate it......I'd hate to go and buy a higher spec card only to find it make no difference what so ever!My current spec is;Gigabyte GTX260 Super O/Ci7 860 O/C 3.9Ghz4GB 1600 CL9 RAMASUS P7P55D-E Pro MOBOIIyama 24" 1980x1020

[red1 0]

I have never eliminated ALL shimmer. I'm pretty sure that's impossible. I run LOD clamped at 0, 16xAF and 8xS AA. No difference if I use higher AA.

[N60JBravo 27]

The most common suggestion for dealing with shimmering is to adjust the mipmap slider on options>settings>display-hardware tab.I don't think you can eliminate all of it.For an interesting read related to this, Google moire.I think it applies to things like the towers.regards,Joe

[psolk 3,037]

I have never eliminated ALL shimmer. I'm pretty sure that's impossible. I run LOD clamped at 0, 16xAF and 8xS AA. No difference if I use higher AA.

I am actually "pretty" close. The only time I get a shimmer is when using my TrackIR or on "some" AI. Otherwise, 16xs AA with SS enabled (which crippled my 8800GTX but my GTX285 eats up) does the trick for me.. I know people say at higher resolutions like 2048*1152 you don't need AA but I think that is one of the biggest loads of garbage ever spread in FS. If I shut off my AA no matter how high my resolution is it is HORRIBLE and IMMEDIATELY noticeable! Like I said, the only area I get a "little" shimmer is on my AI. and sometimes at KEWR Even things like Fences which use to be a nightmare now look beautiful. Incidentally I think I got better IQ with the 196.xx driver versions than the 182.50's but they were not stable(nv4disp.dll blue screens) on my box so for now I am still using the 182.50's at 16xsAA. If I go back to 8xS the difference is immediately noticeable. I also have a Negative LOD Clamp and usually stay between -.750 and 1.000. This also helps to sharpen things up a bit but if you go to far towards the negative you can actually introduce shimmers. The further you go into the negative lod clamp the sharper the image until you go to far...In fact the only place I even think about any flicker is at ImagineSim KEWR and with a couple of AI except for with TrackIR running and that seems to enhance any flickering on the screen, especially my taxiway lines at KEWR LOL!!!Cheers!-Paul

[Wolfko 0]

I am actually "pretty" close. The only time I get a shimmer is when using my TrackIR or on "some" AI. Otherwise, 16xs AA with SS enabled (which crippled my 8800GTX but my GTX285 eats up) does the trick for me.. I know people say at higher resolutions like 2048*1152 you don't need AA but I think that is one of the biggest loads of garbage ever spread in FS. If I shut off my AA no matter how high my resolution is it is HORRIBLE and IMMEDIATELY noticeable! Like I said, the only area I get a "little" shimmer is on my AI. and sometimes at KEWR Even things like Fences which use to be a nightmare now look beautiful. Incidentally I think I got better IQ with the 196.xx driver versions than the 182.50's but they were not stable(nv4disp.dll blue screens) on my box so for now I am still using the 182.50's at 16xsAA. If I go back to 8xS the difference is immediately noticeable. I also have a Negative LOD Clamp and usually stay between -.750 and 1.000. This also helps to sharpen things up a bit but if you go to far towards the negative you can actually introduce shimmers. The further you go into the negative lod clamp the sharper the image until you go to far...In fact the only place I even think about any flicker is at ImagineSim KEWR and with a couple of AI except for with TrackIR running and that seems to enhance any flickering on the screen, especially my taxiway lines at KEWR LOL!!!Cheers!-Paul

Paul is right on!Unfortunately I eventually get computer shut downs (black screens, not only CTDs) when using any amount of AA SS (no matter of pure SS or SS combined with multisampling) after running FS for 30 minutes or so. It

[Guest belga1]

Hello,Interestings comments from everyone ...Nonetheless .. I want to remind .. shimmering have nothing to do with the AA filter setting level.Shimmering is not the "steps effect" you see on the edges of objects and effectively eliminated (almost) by the antialiasing filter of the graphic card driver.The shimmering have to do with the mipmap setting (I'm always happy with the setting "4") in the hardware display tab of FS2004 (as commented by N60JBravo) and also to some extend with the "anisotropic" filter of the graphic card driver.Regards.Gus.

[psolk 3,037]

Hello,Interestings comments from everyone ...Nonetheless .. I want to remind .. shimmering have nothing to do with the AA filter setting level.Shimmering is not the "steps effect" you see on the edges of objects and effectively eliminated (almost) by the antialiasing filter of the graphic card driver.The shimmering have to do with the mipmap setting (I'm always happy with the setting "4") in the hardware display tab of FS2004 (as commented by N60JBravo) and also to some extend with the "anisotropic" filter of the graphic card driver.Regards.Gus.

Hey Gus,Totally agree, AA is for smoothing the blocks or steps in the image out, AF is for eliminating the shimmering. For some reason though I feel like all of the latest NVidia drivers do not use AF as effectively as they used too... In a few versions it was almost like there was no AF at all with the whole screen shimmering :( For me the only way to overcome the "shimmering" I see around airport taxi lines (almost like a shaking effect) is to crank the AA all the way up to 16xS with SS enabled and then I get the best FS image quality imaginable on my box. That is with a Mip of 6 and the negative LOD Clamp of -.750 or -1.000. I think MS always said MIP should be 0 4 or 8 but my box likes 6 :( Gus is right though... :( -Paul

[Wolfko 0]

Hello,Interestings comments from everyone ...Nonetheless .. I want to remind .. shimmering have nothing to do with the AA filter setting level.Shimmering is not the "steps effect" you see on the edges of objects and effectively eliminated (almost) by the antialiasing filter of the graphic card driver.The shimmering have to do with the mipmap setting (I'm always happy with the setting "4") in the hardware display tab of FS2004 (as commented by N60JBravo) and also to some extend with the "anisotropic" filter of the graphic card driver.Regards.Gus.

Gus,I assume you are familiar with NHancer?! Please read what nHancer e. g. says about 4x4 SS AA"Anti-Aliasing smoothes the image by removing jaggies. Internally, the whole image is rendered with four times the resolution in both direction. This mode offers an extremely good quality with practically no shimmering at all. But usually only high-end SLI systems can produce reasonable frame rates with this mode."I think this says it allWolfgang

[Guest stranex]

The most common suggestion for dealing with shimmering is to adjust the mipmap slider on options>settings>display-hardware tab.I don't think you can eliminate all of it.For an interesting read related to this, Google moire.I think it applies to things like the towers.regards,Joe

Interesting thought Joe, just looked it up and seems like the kind of thing I'm witnessing. However, if this is the case then it's strange that others seem able to almost elimante it? There must therefore be something else at play which is making this worse for some than others?

Hello,Interestings comments from everyone ...Nonetheless .. I want to remind .. shimmering have nothing to do with the AA filter setting level.Shimmering is not the "steps effect" you see on the edges of objects and effectively eliminated (almost) by the antialiasing filter of the graphic card driver.The shimmering have to do with the mipmap setting (I'm always happy with the setting "4") in the hardware display tab of FS2004 (as commented by N60JBravo) and also to some extend with the "anisotropic" filter of the graphic card driver.Regards.Gus.

I have tried various mipmap settings, both high and low but other than giving me lower levels of detail on buildings, the lower mipmap settings did not have an observable impact on the shimmering I'm noticing. I have also run at 16xAF and Combined 32xAA and there still isn't a discernable impact on the shimmering I witness.I'm guessing it's more of a graphics card issue if some us still experience it with the same AA, AF and mipmap settings?I'd love to be able to try a higher spec card on my system and see the effects (if any) but I can't justify the outlay only to find out it makes zero difference. If I knew in advance I'd happily make the outlay and try to sell my current card.

[psolk 3,037]

Gus,I assume you are familiar with NHancer?! Please read what nHancer e. g. says about 4x4 SS AA"Anti-Aliasing smoothes the image by removing jaggies. Internally, the whole image is rendered with four times the resolution in both direction. This mode offers an extremely good quality with practically no shimmering at all. But usually only high-end SLI systems can produce reasonable frame rates with this mode."I think this says it allWolfgang

So it sounds like Nvidia has added something into the AA settings as well to help with shimmering which is why 16xS with SS makes everything appear so "soft" and smooth...I still think that in later versions of drivers the AF has gotten worse and it has required higher levels of AA to supplement it.Stranex,I did just that, I went from an 8800GTX to a GTX 285 for no other reason than even my 8800GTX couldn't handle the 16xS with SS enabled that I prefer for my image quality and the GTX285 just eats it up... I am not talking about enabling 16xS I am talking about enabling 16xS AND checking the supersampling option in the profile. It is sad it takes that much GPU horsepower for me to get it to look like I like it but I am darn happy...Also, remember that if the add-on scenery developer did not add MIPS as a lot choose not too it will shimmer horribly. (ie FlyTampa's old stuff...)PS.... for me the dead giveaway is the preview screen when creating a flight. If the numbers on the default cessna have a flicker to them as the AC spins in the preview I know I will see shimmering in the sim... If those numbers are solid with no shimmering or flicker it is going to be a good day!!!

[Guest stranex]

I am actually "pretty" close. The only time I get a shimmer is when using my TrackIR or on "some" AI. Otherwise, 16xs AA with SS enabled (which crippled my 8800GTX but my GTX285 eats up) does the trick for me.. I know people say at higher resolutions like 2048*1152 you don't need AA but I think that is one of the biggest loads of garbage ever spread in FS. If I shut off my AA no matter how high my resolution is it is HORRIBLE and IMMEDIATELY noticeable! Like I said, the only area I get a "little" shimmer is on my AI. and sometimes at KEWR Even things like Fences which use to be a nightmare now look beautiful.Incidentally I think I got better IQ with the 196.xx driver versions than the 182.50's but they were not stable(nv4disp.dll blue screens) on my box so for now I am still using the 182.50's at 16xsAA. If I go back to 8xS the difference is immediately noticeable. I also have a Negative LOD Clamp and usually stay between -.750 and 1.000. This also helps to sharpen things up a bit but if you go to far towards the negative you can actually introduce shimmers. The further you go into the negative lod clamp the sharper the image until you go to far...In fact the only place I even think about any flicker is at ImagineSim KEWR and with a couple of AI except for with TrackIR running and that seems to enhance any flickering on the screen, especially my taxiway lines at KEWR LOL!!!Cheers!Paul

Thanks Paul,Like you, I have 16xAA with SS and 16xAF although I've not tried the 182.xx drivers as I don't think they're compatiable with Win7 64? When I introduce a negative LOD bias I actually experince slightly more shimmering.

[Guest stranex]

So it sounds like Nvidia has added something into the AA settings as well to help with shimmering which is why 16xS with SS makes everything appear so "soft" and smooth...I still think that in later versions of drivers the AF has gotten worse and it has required higher levels of AA to supplement it.Stranex,I did just that, I went from an 8800GTX to a GTX 285 for no other reason than even my 8800GTX couldn't handle the 16xS with SS enabled that I prefer for my image quality and the GTX285 just eats it up... I am not talking about enabling 16xS I am talking about enabling 16xS AND checking the supersampling option in the profile. It is sad it takes that much GPU horsepower for me to get it to look like I like it but I am darn happy...Also, remember that if the add-on scenery developer did not add MIPS as a lot choose not too it will shimmer horribly. (ie FlyTampa's old stuff...)PS.... for me the dead giveaway is the preview screen when creating a flight. If the numbers on the default cessna have a flicker to them as the AC spins in the preview I know I will see shimmering in the sim... If those numbers are solid with no shimmering or flicker it is going to be a good day!!!

Yes, I did wonder if I may be able to tell by looking at the preview screen....will load mine up now and have a look as I play around with some settings.When you say you have 16xS AND Supersampling I presume you have AA set to COMBINED 16xS and also transparency set to Supersampling? I have those settings too.....did try with 32xS but that almost brings the sim to a standstill and even then I could see shimmering :-(

[psolk 3,037]

Yes, I did wonder if I may be able to tell by looking at the preview screen....will load mine up now and have a look as I play around with some settings.When you say you have 16xS AND Supersampling I presume you have AA set to COMBINED 16xS and also transparency set to Supersampling? I have those settings too.....did try with 32xS but that almost brings the sim to a standstill and even then I could see shimmering :-(

Correct,That is what I am running with FPS never falling below 30 in the most demanding scenarios (PMDG747 at KEWR with 100 everything and cloud settings modified to 10...) Your results with 32xS were better than mine LOL, for me when I enable 32xS I get nothing LOL!!!You really have to love how predictable these things are :( And yes, the numbers on the Cessna in the preview screen are a dead giveaway for me...My Pleasure,-PaulAnd back to my original post... It goes to show that those who say that with resolutions over 1280*1024 don't need anti-aliasing have obviously never seen FS WITH AntiAliasing!!! That is just ludicrous LOL

[Guest belga1]

Hello,I use a ATI HD 4850 512MBThis is a small movie showing the code of the default Cessna 172 No shimmering (better in reality cause movie compression)Download movie here:http://www.4shared.com/file/222832420/1b6c...Shimmering.htmlThe ATI settings are:AA 8x (Box)Anisotropic 4xCatalyst AI AdvancedMipmap level High qualityFrequence Synchronisation ActivatedAA adapted QualityTriple bufferingDriver 2D 6.14.10 6983Driver 3D 6.14.10 0685In FS2004 Mipmap on 4Resolution 1024 x 768 32 BitsRefresh Freq of CRT 72 HZRegards.Gus.

[psolk 3,037]

Hello,I use a ATI HD 4850 512MBThis is a small movie showing the code of the default Cessna 172 No shimmering (better in reality cause movie compression)Download movie here:http://www.4shared.com/file/222832420/1b6c...Shimmering.htmlThe ATI settings are:AA 8x (Box)Anisotropic 4xCatalyst AI AdvancedMipmap level High qualityFrequence Synchronisation ActivatedAA adapted QualityTriple bufferingDriver 2D 6.14.10 6983Driver 3D 6.14.10 0685In FS2004 Mipmap on 4Resolution 1024 x 768 32 BitsRefresh Freq of CRT 72 HZRegards.Gus.

I think the key is in the very last two lines...A CRT @72 and lesser so 1024x70681. I don't doubt the fact that our 60hz LCD's and flat screens' are not playing a MAJOR factor here... Gus, if I send you an LCD will you test it? :( 2. I also personally feel tt is much more noticeable as you move to higher resolutions.3. See #1But I wouldn't be surprised if we all went back to our old CRT's at 90 and 100hz that we wouldn't see better results than our flat screens at 60hz today...By Gus I think he's got it!!;) -P