June 9, 201015 yr I know that below 10,000 Feet the maximum speed limit is 250 Kts, but is there ever a limit to your vertical speed? I am not a real pilot.
June 9, 201015 yr is there ever a limit to your vertical speed?There is a mandatory IRL/built-in hard limit at zero AGL.Apologies, couldn't resist. Other than above, I've no idea.ATBPaul ODG Preview
June 9, 201015 yr I know that below 10,000 Feet the maximum speed limit is 250 Kts, but is there ever a limit to your vertical speed? I am not a real pilot.As long as no one faints it Menno i7-11700, 16GB, 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HDD, RTX 3070, Windows 11, MSFS 2020 DeLuxe, P3D 4.5
June 9, 201015 yr @DraogonmountThe only limit is when approaching a cleared altitude or flight level. For the last 1000ft the VS should not be more than 2000ft/min. Reason is not to trigger a false TCAS collision warning if there's another plane just 1000ft above (or below) your cleared altitude. Furthermore the 250kts limit can be overriden by ATC (at least in Europe, the middle East and Asia) It's not uncommon to fly 340kts at 3000ft which happens to be the optimum climb speed for a few 'heavies'.Even in the US when you are very heavy and your minimum clean speed after take off is higher than 250kts you are of course flying faster than 250 instead of keeping the flaps extended until 10000ft.@ MennoE.g. a 767 on a short range flight climbs at around 6000ft/min but I never had the problem of the pressurization unable to keep up.
June 9, 201015 yr Commercial Member I know that below 10,000 Feet the maximum speed limit is 250 Kts, but is there ever a limit to your vertical speed? I am not a real pilot.My understanding is that generally, VS is a consequence of engine power and pitching for a given speed. For example, once power is set for climb, pitch is set for 250 and as a result, VS is whatever it is and yes sometimes, it can be quite high especially when compared to the default aircraft that seem to think a VS of 1800 is normal. I won't tell you how many years went by with me fiddling with the power to keep to 250 (or indeed 300 once past 10,000ft), whilst the AP held a VS of 1800!There are probably exceptions to the above though; a lightly loaded 757 (or a Super27 even) would show climb rates well past 6000fpm at normal climb power! Cheers Paul Golding
June 9, 201015 yr There's sometimes a limit imposed in the standard operating procedures for a particular aircraft type, and occasionally airlines will impose their own restrictions on what pilots can do, but most restrictions of that kind are usually concerned with speed, as you observed. You might be interested to know that the 250 knots/10,000 feet limit was originally brought in following a number of mid air collisions between commercial aircraft many years ago, but the main reason for it these days is in fact to limit the danger of catastrophic damage from bird strikes. Birds can of course go up a lot higher than 10,000 feet, and have been witnessed at 37,000 feet, but generally speaking they are to be found below 10,000 feet. Of course we know that flying below 250 knots is not a guarantee that birds won't cause problems, as evidenced by the Airbus which ditched in the Hudson last year and the well known incident of a Thomson 757 taking off from Manchester UK and losing an engine from a bird strike, which was caught on camera. Not really on topic, but well worth a look if you've never seen it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDEBack on the original point however, as a general rule, airliners are not normally expected to pitch up more than around 20 degrees on a climb when carrying passengers, even though some EADS demo pilots apparently don't think that applies to them, as you may have seen at airshows LOL. Most airliners take off at around 10-12 degrees and typically climb at about 15 degrees. The vertical speed such an angle creates depends on the airspeed, efficiency of the wing and engine and the weather conditions too of course (usually a higher V/S in cooler weather), so if you want to fly your simulated airliners 'properly', then you won't go too far wrong sticking to those figures, as they are about right for the average airliner.ATC will sometimes say 'expedite your climb/descent' or perhaps request 'best rate of climb' from a pilot, but there is no actual figure as to what that is in vertical speed numbers, so really the only major V/S restrictions you tend to come across for aircraft that are common in that regard, are the occasional mandatory minimum rates of climb for some instrument departures, to get them above certain heights before they pass over noise monitoring stations on the ground or obstructions such as tall antennas. You may know that Airbus aircraft often feature a selectable 'expedite' function as part of their autopilot systems, which can really make the thing go like the clappers, but sometimes pilots notes from the airline forbid crews from using this feature unless there is an emergency, since it places more wear and tear on the aircraft. Similarly, you will often see 'cost index' on the FMC of many airliners too, which is linked to how the autopilot will apply thust to the engines on climbs and such, so that can affect V/S as well. Oddly enough the term cost index can be a bit misleading though, sometimes it is actually more economical to use higher thrust settings to climb faster, even though it burns more fuel and generates higher engine temperatures and pressures, because on a faster climb the engines will be at higher thrust for a shorter amount of time, and in the grand scheme of things that can lead to less wear and tear for some engine types and even use less fuel on occasion.The descent rate is generally limited by the ability of the crew to slow the aircraft when coming down, plus considerations for the comfort of those on board. Pilots typically want an airliner going in the region of 280-310 knots for the vast majority of their descent, since they will have to get it down to 250 knots before 10,000 feet, although some aircraft are allowed to exceed that 250/10k limit if such speed is necessary for them to safely maintain enough lift. Therefore, because it is difficult to slow a lot of airliners down whilst descending (famously, the Boeing 737 is one that can be demanding in that regard, since it is recommended the engines on a 737 be kept about 45 percent rotation in a descent through heavy precipitation, to avoid the risk of flaming out its engines, which can be swamped by heavy rain). Stuff like that does tend to create its own limits on descent rates if they are to be kept below manageable speeds. You might have heard ATC controllers advise pilots that there is 'no speed restriction' on an aircraft radio, which might lead some to imagine that speed limits on the descent are not always a big deal, but there is often confusion about what that actually means. Typically, it does not mean 'feel free to blast along at 450 knots if you like', instead it usually refers to the speed limits lower than 250 knots when near airports, so it really should be interpreted as: 'you can go up to 250 knots if you like, even though we normally expect aircraft to be going at XXX amount of knots at this point on the descent'.As Menno points out, going up or down too fast can be painful for passengers on an airliner if the cabin pressure adjusts too quickly and their ears 'pop' (which in case you were curious is caused by air at altered pressure pushing on your middle ear, which is a pretty small space and why that can hurt). This is something pilots have to consider too, since although most people know that you can relieve that by swallowing hard (the reason some airlines hand out boiled sweets when landing), very small children and young babies do no know you can do this to relieve any pain, and since there is no way to tell them, and you can't give a baby a boiled toffee to suck on, it could be very painful for them. It is true that nursing a baby will cause it to swallow, and that would work, but becoming 'the airline that makes babies cry' would not be a good PR campaign, so that's another reason why climbs and descents (and their associated cabin pressure changes) are kept as sedate as they can reasonably be unless there is some kind of safety reason to expedite matters.Al Alan Bradbury Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here
June 9, 201015 yr You might have heard ATC controllers advise pilots that there is 'no speed restriction' on an aircraft radio, which might lead some to imagine that speed limits on the descent are not always a big deal, but there is often confusion about what that actually means. Typically, it does not mean 'feel free to blast along at 450 knots if you like', instead it usually refers to the speed limits lower than 250 knots when near airports, so it really should be interpreted as: 'you can go up to 250 knots if you like, even though we normally expect aircraft to be going at XXX amount of knots at this point on the descent'.....It is true that nursing a baby will cause it to swallow, and that would work, but becoming 'the airline that makes babies cry' would not be a good PR campaign, so that's another reason why climbs and descents (and their associated cabin pressure changes) are kept as sedate as they can reasonably be unless there is some kind of safety reason to expedite matters.AlThat's interesting. I thought the 'no speed restriction means exactly the opposite. ATC knows that quite a few planes have a much higher optimum climb speed than 250kts, so that's one reason for that.The other reason is that the faster the planes gets in and out of an airport the more traffic ATC can handle and they clear his sector. At least that's what ATC guys tell me.Airliners which have these kind of pressurization problems are rather rare now, (like the old DC-9). Nowadays you can go up and down at 5000fpm+ and the pressurization system will cope with it easily.
June 9, 201015 yr The point with 'no speed restriction' announcements here is, ATC at an airport are in a position where they can override the airports own rulings on final approach speeds and airport departure speeds (whilst still in their own airport control area), but they are not empowered to issue commands overriding the rule about 250 knot speeds outside their own area of control, since that would be the same as a traffic cop telling you that you could break the speed limit; it isn't within their power to issue such edicts, even though it probably has happened.Al Alan Bradbury Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here
June 9, 201015 yr ....since that would be the same as a traffic cop telling you that you could break the speed limit; it isn't within their power to issue such edicts, even though it probably has happened.AlProbably? I'd say it happens every day around the world (except in the US) numerous times as it saves time and fuel.Personally even if I get 'no speed restriction' I only increase to a higher speed than 250kts if I know that there isn't a VFR traffic area in the vicinity.
June 9, 201015 yr I work ATC and no there is no vertical speed limit... we sometimes have C-130's come up and do penetration approaches (they start at like 17,000 and descend rapidly to our MVA which is around 3000ft) | My Liveries | FAA ZMP | PPL ASEL | | Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | MSI RTX 4080 | 64GB 6000 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X | HP G2 (VR) / LG 27" 1440p |
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