I have recently installed Flight 1's excellent Ultimate Terrain Europe for FS2004. One of the side effects of this program is that it leaves any buildings and landmarks in their incorrect positions which were set by the default MS scenery. This is certainly apparent with London City Airport (EGLC) which is closely associated with the Canary Wharf towers, the Thames Flood Barrier etc. I have a freeware scenery for London City and Canary Wharf, but these place the towers according to the default MS scenery, and therefore they end up standing in the middle of the River Thames. What I would like to do is to simply adapt this freeware scenery and move all the landmarks to their correct positions.I have no experience in scenery design, and have no intention of getting into this in a big way, so I need some simple tools that will fix the problem quickly. I have found FS Scenery Creator, and I believe that I can move the buildings through this. I have discovered that it cannot open bgl files, so I presume I need to do something to it to make it it usable by FSSC. What would you suggest? What tools will I need apart from FSSC? I have had a quick look at the tutorial on this forum, but this left me a bit confused as it deals with all aspects of scenery design and I am not clear what I need for one simple change to an existing scenery.Thanks for any help you can give.

I have recently installed Flight 1's excellent Ultimate Terrain Europe for FS2004. One of the side effects of this program is that it leaves any buildings and landmarks in their incorrect positions which were set by the default MS scenery. ... I am not clear what I need for one simple change to an existing scenery.

Adrian, like you I am no expert in scenery design but the first thing you've got to understand that 'simple' it ain't! I cannot advise about FSSC but I suspect that to change .bgl files in your Ultimate Terrain program you might have to go down the xml coding route. Be careful to back up everything before you start to modify. To disassemble (or decompile) .bgl files use a utility like BGLXML, or BGLAnalyze - both available on AVSIM. These programs will produce an .xml file which can be worked on using a text editor (Notepad would do - I recommend the freeware Cooktop 2.5 utility). You should be able to get information on how to edit .xml files from the scenery forum on FSDeveloper - http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/index.php. Changing addon scenery like Ultimate Terrain is not for a beginner, however, and my advice is to start learning scenery design techniques on something which is really simple. Take a small default airfield somewhere, get some photos, study it in google earth/map and then create some simple scenery to improve its realism. You could use FSSC for that, or the excellent freeware ADE9X. When you are happy with that, take another airfield and use .xml coding to change it. When you are familiar with the scenery design tools and techniques you will be better placed to tweak complex programs like UT. Lastly, if you ever manage to move those buildings out of the River Thames make sure you keep the new .bgl files to yourself. Ultimate Terrain Europe is copyrighted and you will land yourself in deep trouble if you infringe. Best of luck!John

If you would provide the complete filename (a link to it would be best) of the freeware scenery you mention for London City and Canary Wharf, one of us could take a look at it and see what the potential is for moving the landmarks in question.

Adrian, like you I am no expert in scenery design but the first thing you've got to understand that 'simple' it ain't! I cannot advise about FSSC but I suspect that to change .bgl files in your Ultimate Terrain program you might have to go down the xml coding route. Be careful to back up everything before you start to modify. To disassemble (or decompile) .bgl files use a utility like BGLXML, or BGLAnalyze - both available on AVSIM. These programs will produce an .xml file which can be worked on using a text editor (Notepad would do - I recommend the freeware Cooktop 2.5 utility). You should be able to get information on how to edit .xml files from the scenery forum on FSDeveloper - http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/index.php. Changing addon scenery like Ultimate Terrain is not for a beginner, however, and my advice is to start learning scenery design techniques on something which is really simple. Take a small default airfield somewhere, get some photos, study it in google earth/map and then create some simple scenery to improve its realism. You could use FSSC for that, or the excellent freeware ADE9X. When you are happy with that, take another airfield and use .xml coding to change it. When you are familiar with the scenery design tools and techniques you will be better placed to tweak complex programs like UT. Lastly, if you ever manage to move those buildings out of the River Thames make sure you keep the new .bgl files to yourself. Ultimate Terrain Europe is copyrighted and you will land yourself in deep trouble if you infringe. Best of luck!John

Thanks for the advice John. However it is not UTE that I am thinking of changing. UTE has changed the course of the Thames to its correct location. I added the QLRP4UT patch that relocated all the landmarks and bridges in London from their old and incorrect MS locations to their correct geographical locations to fit in with UTE. The one landmark it did not relocate is Canary Wharf for some reason, and this is now missing. It is a vital part of the EGLC scenery as it is the main reason for the steep 5.5 degree approach. I have a freeware scenery addon for EGLC and Canary Wharf, but that was created for the default MS locations - hence the reason why Canary Wharf is now getting its feet wet! It is the addon scenery I would like to modify.

If you would provide the complete filename (a link to it would be best) of the freeware scenery you mention for London City and Canary Wharf, one of us could take a look at it and see what the potential is for moving the landmarks in question.

The files in question are EGLC_London_City_Airport.zip and London_City_Update.zip. Both are available from http://www.fsnordic.net/ - go to File Library, the Flight Simulator, then Great Britain. The author is Matthew Ministry, who unfortunately did not provide an e-mail address, so I am unable to contact him. From a quick glance at the scenery it seems the airport buildings are more or less in the right place, but they may need to be tweaked a bit. Canary Wharf is slightly to the south east of where it should be and sits partly in the river. The Thames Flood Barrier is too far south and covers only half the width of the river. The ExCel Centre is too far south and extends into one of the docks. I haven't checked the location of the University of East London buildings to the north east of the runway, but these should sit right by the dockside. Then there's the Tate & Lyle factory to the south of the airport which I haven't checked either. You can get the correct locations of all of these on Google Earth.

Thanks for the advice John. However it is not UTE that I am thinking of changing. UTE has changed the course of the Thames to its correct location. I added the QLRP4UT patch that relocated all the landmarks and bridges in London from their old and incorrect MS locations to their correct geographical locations to fit in with UTE. The one landmark it did not relocate is Canary Wharf for some reason, and this is now missing. It is a vital part of the EGLC scenery as it is the main reason for the steep 5.5 degree approach. I have a freeware scenery addon for EGLC and Canary Wharf, but that was created for the default MS locations - hence the reason why Canary Wharf is now getting its feet wet! It is the addon scenery I would like to modify.

As requested earlier - what is the complete filename of the Canary Wharf scenery and where can it be downloaded?Until one of us can actually look at the files in that package and see how they were created, we will only be guessing if they can be edited.

As requested earlier - what is the complete filename of the Canary Wharf scenery and where can it be downloaded?Until one of us can actually look at the files in that package and see how they were created, we will only be guessing if they can be edited.

Opa, the Canary Wharf scenery is part of the EGLC scenery. The files are EGLC_London_City_Airport.ZIP and London_City_Update.zip - I have both although I never installed them. As Adrian says they are available on FSNordic website. I do not run UTE so am unable to work on this for him. John

Opa, the Canary Wharf scenery is part of the EGLC scenery. The files are EGLC_London_City_Airport.ZIP and London_City_Update.zip - I have both although I never installed them. As Adrian says they are available on FSNordic website. I do not run UTE so am unable to work on this for him. John

I do not have UTE either. What I was interested to find out was if the Canary Wharf bgl files are based on XML format or on some older version which cannot be decompiled.If xml based it "should" (may) be possible to decompile them and IF one can determine which object is which, edit the coordinates and recompile.If not xml based then I have no idea how the coordinates of the various objects in question might be changed.

What I was interested to find out was if the Canary Wharf bgl files are based on XML format or on some older version which cannot be decompiled.If xml based it "should" (may) be possible to decompile them and IF one can determine which object is which, edit the coordinates and recompile.

My thinking too. However, I could not decompile the Canary Wharf .bgl with either BGLX or BGLAnalyze - 'cannot disassemble files of the old type'. I wonder if that object was originally made for 2002? Looks like a dead-end. Adrian, there are several more recent versions of EGLC listed on AVSIM. I do not know about Flightsim.com. It might be worth having a look at these. Also, I think there either is, or soon will be, a payware version of EGLC (Aerosoft?). John

There is most likely no need at all for decompiling any scenery file, and in any case it is a complicated process. Generally, one only has to exclude any unwanted objects and then place them in the correct position. There are numerous tools for creating exclusion files for FS 9 (for example, ExcBuilder by Paavo Pihelgas comes to mind) and then placing the landmark buildings can be accomplished by any number of available freeware tools. And you should be able to use Jon Masterson's Library Object Manager to obtain the names and GUIDs (identifiers) of the relevant objects from the scenery file. The whole process would be much simpler this way.Best regards.Luis

There is most likely no need at all for decompiling any scenery file, and in any case it is a complicated process. Generally, one only has to exclude any unwanted objects and then place them in the correct position. There are numerous tools for creating exclusion files for FS 9 (for example, ExcBuilder by Paavo Pihelgas comes to mind) and then placing the landmark buildings can be accomplished by any number of available freeware tools. And you should be able to use Jon Masterson's Library Object Manager to obtain the names and GUIDs (identifiers) of the relevant objects from the scenery file. The whole process would be much simpler this way.Best regards.Luis

As I see it there is a basic problem with that approach - the "landmark" objects which the OP wishes to move are not default items - the wharf for example is apparently a custom object created by the author and he did not use xml formats. As I understand it, Jon's Library Manager can only use objects which can be decompiled using the BGLXML utility - unless I have completely mi-understood the documentation in his utility.I do hope there is a solution for the OP.

As I see it there is a basic problem with that approach - the "landmark" objects which the OP wishes to move are not default items - the wharf for example is apparently a custom object created by the author and he did not use xml formats. As I understand it, Jon's Library Manager can only use objects which can be decompiled using the BGLXML utility - unless I have completely mi-understood the documentation in his utility.I do hope there is a solution for the OP.

All my tools are for xml based bgl files so if the file is prior to that it can only be opened using BglAnalyze I thinkI would then expect the object to be in API format.

My thinking too. However, I could not decompile the Canary Wharf .bgl with either BGLX or BGLAnalyze - 'cannot disassemble files of the old type'. I wonder if that object was originally made for 2002? Looks like a dead-end. Adrian, there are several more recent versions of EGLC listed on AVSIM. I do not know about Flightsim.com. It might be worth having a look at these. Also, I think there either is, or soon will be, a payware version of EGLC (Aerosoft?). John

I have looked at these before, and none of them have all the landmarks - they are just an airport scenery, and in any case I think they will simply replace the default airport. Unfortunately with the airport being right on the river there were bound to be problems once UTE had corrected the coastline. It's a shame that the author of QLRP4UT omitted Canary Wharf in his project. MS created just the 1 rudimentary tower for Canary Wharf, whereas in reality there are now at least 3 towers on the site, but it would be better to have just one than none at all. There is an FS2002 scenery for Canary Wharf by Oliver Minchin which includes 3 towers - I may try that and see where it places it in the FS9/UTE scenery. If that is successful then maybe I could try one of the other airport sceneries, but as I said, I don't think it will fit in with UTE very well. What we really need is someone to create a new scenery for EGLC including all the landmarks that will fit UTE. This is way outside my capabilities and time availability, so please don't all look at me!You mentioned a payware version coming out. I cannot find any reference to this on Aerosoft. They have a version for FSX that came out last year which looks great, but they insisted at the time that they had no intention of releasing a version for FS9. If a payware version comes out for FS9, I may take a look, but once again it would need to fit in with the UTE coastline, otherwise it is pointless.

I have looked at these before, and none of them have all the landmarks - they are just an airport scenery, and in any case I think they will simply replace the default airport. Unfortunately with the airport being right on the river there were bound to be problems once UTE had corrected the coastline. It's a shame that the author of QLRP4UT omitted Canary Wharf in his project. MS created just the 1 rudimentary tower for Canary Wharf, whereas in reality there are now at least 3 towers on the site, but it would be better to have just one than none at all. There is an FS2002 scenery for Canary Wharf by Oliver Minchin which includes 3 towers - I may try that and see where it places it in the FS9/UTE scenery. If that is successful then maybe I could try one of the other airport sceneries, but as I said, I don't think it will fit in with UTE very well. What we really need is someone to create a new scenery for EGLC including all the landmarks that will fit UTE. This is way outside my capabilities and time availability, so please don't all look at me!You mentioned a payware version coming out. I cannot find any reference to this on Aerosoft. They have a version for FSX that came out last year which looks great, but they insisted at the time that they had no intention of releasing a version for FS9. If a payware version comes out for FS9, I may take a look, but once again it would need to fit in with the UTE coastline, otherwise it is pointless.

Well I have found a workable solution. Oliver Minchin's Canary Wharf for FS2002 works pretty well. It has 3 towers: 1 Canada Square (the original tower known as Canary Wharf), the HSBC building and the Citibank building. They are situated slightly in the dock, but I can live with that - at least they are not sitting in the river. The file name is canaryv1.zip - you just need the part for Canary Wharf, not the parts rectifying the Millennium Dome, as this error does not affect FS9. Then I added Gernot Zander's "London City LCY EGLC Light" (eglc-light.zip) which is a good representation of the airport in its correct position (all done from Google Earth). Until a better scenery comes along, or somebody works out how to fix Matthew Ministry's scenery, I think I will stick with this. Thanks for all your help guys.

All my tools are for xml based bgl files so if the file is prior to that it can only be opened using BglAnalyze I thinkI would then expect the object to be in API format.

FYI - BglAnalyze does not work on the bgl in question either.