Additional Clues about MS Flight

[dmaher 0]

Read the market I described more carefully and you'll see it is a realistic target..5 billion is about 70% of the world's total population - now that isn't a target market!.

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.Bill Cosby said that :)I do see your point...and I did mean to be sort of sarcastic.What I mean to say is the game’s developed with a more specific target market in mind.Discretionary spending and leisure time are very limited, and folks already have a laundry list of things they intend to buy.These are products built with great care and expense, designed to appeal to their unique profile.If a target is too broad this kind of competition is just overwhelming - failure is certain.No way no how will this game peak any interest in the crowd that doesn’t already have a measure of the aviation bug.The thing is to find these people and exploit them :)I think it’s tempting to believe with some adjustment the FS franchise could appeal to the Halo crowd or the FramVille crowd or both.A sort of crossover success…it just doesn’t have the bones for it.

[n4gix 4,955]

A sort of crossover success…it just doesn’t have the bones for it.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe including an obnoxious Super Mario Brother character with some of the cheesy music from Donkey Kong, coupled with the ability to play Pogo and Pong with your plane might appeal to some of the younger crowd...<now, can someone please help me get my tongue out of my cheek? I'll need it to eat dinner...>

[Ozark_Dogfighter 0]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe including an obnoxious Super Mario Brother character with some of the cheesy music from Donkey Kong, coupled with the ability to play Pogo and Pong with your plane might appeal to some of the younger crowd...<now, can someone please help me get my tongue out of my cheek? I'll need it to eat dinner...>

Well, now, after nightfall Lancelot, Gallahad, and I will leap out of the rabbit, taking them completely by surprise!/wait, what?

[Guest firehawk44]

If the performace related thing is true, than we have reason to be hopeful. If they deliver FSX with the performance of FS9, we have a real reason to be happy.

I couldn't pass your comment up Benjamin. When FS9 was first released and several years afterwards, I read a lot of complaints about the FPS in FS9 and people were coming up with tweaks, just like in FSX. Technology advances and wa-la, FS9 runs like a charm. When I got my system, 3 or 4 years ago, FSX was just being released and FS9 ran like a charm with the new technology I bought. FSX is starting to have better performance with the new I7 platforms and I suspect Microsoft Flight will have some minor performance issues until technology advances even further. I will upgrade my system soon to take advantage of the new technology and hopefully Microsoft Flight will perform well.Best regards,Jim

[kerosene31 349]

I'm not sure why so many are worried about casual fans flying our "hardcore" sim? MSFS always has an options menu for realism/difficulty. There's no indication or reason to believe that they'd purposely "dumb down" the game. Even if for some reason Flight doesn't work for the hardcore fans, we'll find something else (or just stick with what we have).

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

I'm not sure why so many are worried about casual fans flying our "hardcore" sim? MSFS always has an options menu for realism/difficulty. There's no indication or reason to believe that they'd purposely "dumb down" the game. Even if for some reason Flight doesn't work for the hardcore fans, we'll find something else (or just stick with what we have).

+1,000!!!! I wish more people would think this way and not be so negative about a new flight sim that has the chance of being great.

[Guest Dog_Is_My_Copilot]

I suggest the target market is the person who has no previous FS experience. He sees Flight advertised, or on the shelves at the local store, buys it and then recommends it to friends - who then go and buy it themselves. There may well be some "icing on the cake" for enthusiasts but in the event of budget over run that's the area likely to be scaled back. Microsoft is developing Flight to make money - not to satisfy the enthusiasts. It's already been pointed out the the FS community just isn't a big enough market on its own,

I think you're right on, mgh. There are far more "casual" flight fans than there are "hard core/enthusiasts". People who go to airshows or a flight museum or just like to go watch planes at their local airport, etc. What little kid doesn't look up in awe at a big airliner flying over? So how much does Microsoft make when someone like that buys a copy of Flight Sim? Probably around 25 or 30 bucks (if you buy it at retail for $39 or $49 the middleman gets their cut).Now take someone who is a pilot, or wannabe pilot, builds their own cockpit at home, buys hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of add-ons, and frequents these forums. How much does Microsoft make when someone like THAT buys a copy of Flight Sim? Yep, probably around 25 or 30 bucks. Actually, since a lot of those guys WAIT to buy it, they pay even less ("I'm not upgrading from FS3, I just got it set up the way I like it!"). We get the entire planet, 25,000 airports, about 2 dozen aircraft (in FSX), different ways to experience flight (missions or free flight) and a lot more for $30 and then we sit and gripe about how Microsoft got this wrong or that wrong, some people say they are GLAD that all those people in Aces got laid off, and then they come back and complain that Microsoft isn't making the ultimate and perfect simulation and giving to them for free. Crazy! Making a flight simulation with all that stuff is a really hard thing to do compared to some of the other games out there that sell for $50 or $60 on an Xbox.If Microsoft can bring in more people who share our love for aviation and grow the user base while still giving us the basic world to build add-ons for then longer term it will be good for all of us. Otherwise they'll pull the plug on Flight and we'll watch the hobby die like it almost did in the 1990's, and then again a couple of years ago.Woof

[Tierborn 191]

I think you're right on, mgh.    There are far more "casual" flight fans than there are "hard core/enthusiasts".   People who go to airshows or a flight museum or just like to go watch planes at their local airport, etc.   What little kid doesn't look up in awe at a big airliner flying over?     So how much does Microsoft make when someone like that buys a copy of Flight Sim?   Probably around 25 or 30 bucks (if you buy it at retail for $39 or $49 the middleman gets their cut).Now take someone who is a pilot, or wannabe pilot, builds their own cockpit at home, buys hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of add-ons, and frequents these forums.   How much does Microsoft make when someone like THAT buys a copy of Flight Sim?   Yep, probably around 25 or 30 bucks.    Actually, since a lot of those guys WAIT to buy it, they pay even less ("I'm not upgrading from FS3, I just got it set up the way I like it!").  We get the entire planet, 25,000 airports, about 2 dozen aircraft (in FSX), different ways to experience flight (missions or free flight) and a lot more for $30 and then we sit and gripe about how Microsoft got this wrong or that wrong, some people say they are GLAD that all those people in Aces got laid off, and then they come back and complain that Microsoft isn't making the ultimate and perfect simulation and giving to them for free.   Crazy!   Making a flight simulation with all that stuff is a really hard thing to do compared to some of the other games out there that sell for $50 or $60 on an Xbox.If Microsoft can bring in more people who share our love for aviation and grow the user base while still giving us the basic world to build add-ons for then longer term it will be good for all of us.   Otherwise they'll pull the plug on Flight and we'll watch the hobby die like it almost did in the 1990's, and then again a couple of years ago.Woof

wow .. a reasonable and sane flight enthusiast.  (Will you have my babies?  :( ).I like you post and have been saying the same for years.  But you know we have a certain element of the popular that you can never make happy.  If you gave them a house.. they would say its TO small.   If you gave them a BIGGER house... they would say, its to big, not cozy like the other one.  However, I still appreciate those folks, because without the insanity how would we recognize the sane.   :biggrin:ps - i am especially impressed that this was your FIRST post!

[Bert Pieke 7,590]

I can't think that any FS can target "the large portion of the market", unless you include games where you 'fly' aircraft and shoot at stuff. Anyways, weren't FSX "missions" an attempt to appeal to a wider market?

Many forget that the original release of Microsoft Flight Simulator had a World War I scenario where you could fly aSopwith Camel and shoot down enemy planes, as well as strafe and bomb enemy bases :( The Camel in fact remained in several subsequent releases, even if the WWI "game" did not.So, this has all been done before, and it hardly did any damage to the FS franchise or fan-base.I'd also like to remind us all that the Aces team had a number of GA pilots on the staffwho prided themselves on making the flight experience as "real" as possible.If Microsoft continues along a similar path with "Flight", we should expect a next-gen flight simulatorthat will keep us all (and the developer community) busy for years.. And if it also appeals to a largercrowd of "aviation interested" purchasers, so much the better!In the meantime, FSX is pretty good these days, so the wait is not that hard, with new interestingreleases out every month (thinking: Ant's Sierra, Aerosoft AirbusX, MilViz C310 as recent examples..)

[Bert Pieke 7,590]

Many forget that the original release of Microsoft Flight Simulator had a World War I scenario

This prompted me to go find the manual in my basement (yes, FS1 came with a bound, 150 page manual..)

[dmaher 0]

Bert, I remember that map…I’m pretty sure I played it on a TRS80 at a friend’s house.Re. Casual vs HardcoreIt gets said a lot and well it’s understood, but it’s worth restating. MS’s target market has never been the hardcore simmer.They have always-always targeted a broader casual user.There are few AVSIM users that would argue otherwise…if any.So the message in the announcement is spun as new, to build enthusiasm, but it is not a new direction. -IMOThe most I can take away from it is that they will continue to refine their casual experience.Now, what has changed over the years is their regard for this small population of hardcore user that modifies their default game.Initially their attitude was semi-tolerant, despite being somewhat adversarial - because we make their life hard :)We tend to break the game or at least degrade it (performance wise) and then complain about it, and criticize how they do their job.It was very tempting, and natural, for them to dismiss us…people they couldn’t please 100% anyway.That was very much the attitude I saw at the early AVSIM conferences...when extreme fans pressed MS for further support.However, that changed with FS9 and even more overtly with FSX.MS’s message to developers became, not hardcore fans are now our target audience, but free-ware and pay-ware developers help build enthusiasm and energy around our product.The churn hardcore users create keeps FS on the radar for would be new users.The implication is…while extreme users can be a pain they do push boxes…and help the bottom line.I also could see that many at MS were closet hardcore FS fans.So the issue isn’t has MS changed their target market? - Every indication is they have not.The question is has MS changed their regard for the minority of hardcore users?That’s all just opinion…there are folks at MS that would disagree on several counts :)

[Guest wims]

...FSX is starting to have better performance with the new I7 platforms and I suspect Microsoft Flight will have some minor performance issues until technology advances even further. I will upgrade my system soon to take advantage of the new technology and hopefully Microsoft Flight will perform well.Best regards,Jim

i7 isnt actually new technology anymore, its almost 2 year old now. There's a new platform right around the corner, the Sandy Bridge architecture, scheduled to be released in about 3-4 months time

[Avantime 81]

i'm wondering what's the M$ strategy on DLCs for Flight, now that it's turning into a major money spinner for the likes of Bioware.

[Tierborn 191]

i'm wondering what's the M$ strategy on DLCs for Flight, now that it's turning into a major money spinner for the likes of Bioware.

DLC might be a included .. its showing up in tons of other titles recently.

[VIPERGTSR01 22]

i7 isnt actually new technology anymore, its almost 2 year old now. There's a new platform right around the corner, the Sandy Bridge architecture, scheduled to be released in about 3-4 months time

Indeed, I got my i7 920 in December 2008 and wont upgrade until atleast a architecture arrives.