Anyone else find it ironic that people are complaining about having to sign up for something, on a forum that they had to sign up to post on? Just an observation....

My observation is that several of those who don't agree with certain reservations, explained by most in a calm and rational manner as is the custom on discussion forums, don't manage to post anything to the contrary beyond "clever" one-liners and obligatory smilies. Like the comments about drama and irrationality, let alone the accusations of trollery. I find that ironic.Who's the more foolish...the fool or the fool who follows him? - Ben KenobiCreating an account to use the forums is quite different from subscribing to a simple newsletter/email update. I find it reasonable that the former requires you to have a log-in ID and password for example. But I'm curious why the latter requires more than a delivery email address. In this specific case, much more, down to ones birth year?! Are they sending out different updates to different age groups? Different genders? I suspect not, so what you really only need is a simple HTML page with an email address field and two buttons, subscribe and unsubscribe. Simple confirmation mail and voilà. If you want to do research, be honest about it and you may just get more reliable info out of it.

the videos and information provided so far haven't answered many questions.

Exactly, so what are we arguing about again, subscribing to newsletters with non-information.:(

...Creating an account to use the forums is quite different from subscribing to a simple newsletter/email update. I find it reasonable that the former requires you to have a log-in ID and password for example. But I'm curious why the latter requires more than a delivery email address. In this specific case, much more, down to ones birth year?! Are they sending out different updates to different age groups? Different genders? I suspect not, so what you really only need is a simple HTML page with an email address field and two buttons, subscribe and unsubscribe. Simple confirmation mail and voilà. If you want to do research, be honest about it and you may just get more reliable info out of it....

If entering your real name and age is a problem (and there are valid reasons it should be) there are also valid reasons for Microsoft asking for this information: Microsoft is a very large and rich corporation and very large and rich corporations get hit with low-life nuisance lawsuits all the time, so it makes sense for then to take measures to protect themselves.So why not relax and enjoy creating your on-line avatar with a fake name and age just for LiveID ("Look, Ma, I fooled Microsoft!") so you can enjoy or criticize the monthly webisodes that guarantee nothing at all about what will be or won't be in MS Flight?Cheers,- jahman.

You guys realize that the windows login prevents the page from getting abused... Without it I can signup anyone I want or provide a fake email, or just mess with the database of email addresses they are trying to create for legit uses...

database of email addresses they are trying to create for legit uses...

It's the "legit uses" that has me worried! Microsoft and I might not be in 100% agreement on this point.Regards, Mike Mann

You guys realize that the windows login prevents the page from getting abused...  Without it I can signup anyone I want or provide a fake email, or just mess with the database of email addresses they are trying to create for legit uses...

you have to have real email .. but you name can be fake.

If entering your real name and age is a problem (and there are valid reasons it should be) there are also valid reasons for Microsoft asking for this information: Microsoft is a very large and rich corporation and very large and rich corporations get hit with low-life nuisance lawsuits all the time, so it makes sense for then to take measures to protect themselves.

Up to valid reasons I follow you, but after that I don't see how you go from simplified newsletter subscription to protection against lawsuits. They can always add a disclaimer if needed.

You guys realize that the windows login prevents the page from getting abused... Without it I can signup anyone I want or provide a fake email, or just mess with the database of email addresses they are trying to create for legit uses...

Prevents abuse? That's a little naive, don't you think. If I can sign up with a fake name as suggested, I can also sign up with a real name of another person, complete with year of birth and get him or her in all kinds of trouble. And who prevents MS from abusing all the info you provide them?As for the second part of that, I did mention "confirmation mail" in my post. So you'd have to click a link in an email to confirm the subscription, before you actually get newsletters (or before you can actually unsubcribe). Assuming only you have access to your inbox, that rules out various fraudulent activities. As for someone obtaining a list, obviously the simplified subscription would have some kind of protection against that. Without the need to know users' genders for example... Surely you're not implying that only the Windows Live ID system provides sufficient protection?:(

Arguing about the usefulness of Windows Live ID isn't going to change anything, so either sign up or don't. I'm sure other people will be posting the relavent information from the newsletter on forums and other websites anyway.Microsoft Flight is a Games for Windows LIVE title, which means you will need an Xbox LIVE gamertag, which in turn requires a Windows Live ID. You're either going to have to suck it up eventually, or decide that playing Microsoft Flight isn't worth signing up for an account. As other people said, you can use whatever email you want. I just signed up for the newsletter and they didn't ask for anything other than for me to log in. The name and other details are only needed to sign up for a Windows Live ID, which has its own seperate requirements than signing up for the newsletter.My Windows Live ID is registered to my hotmail account, and while I do get some emails from hotmail (which is probably unrelated to having the Windows Live ID), I don't get any emails from Windows Live or other things. I think when you sign up you may be signed up to get some other newsletters, but you can always unsubscribe from them right away.

Thanks for clarification Stonelance. Nice to see you here, I remember you from trainsim.com.

Arguing about the usefulness of Windows Live ID isn't going to change anything

No, but following that reasoning we'd have nothing left to discuss here. ;-p I did also use the contact feature on the MS Flight site and sent them a little something, not that that will have an impact. Surprisingly enough, the feedback feature was a simple mailto link I could use without the need for a Windows Live ID, but I guess that's a whole nother story...

Microsoft Flight is a Games for Windows LIVE title, which means you will need an Xbox LIVE gamertag, which in turn requires a Windows Live ID. You're either going to have to suck it up eventually, or decide that playing Microsoft Flight isn't worth signing up for an account.

You know for a fact a user will need a gamertag and Live ID? And to what extent, online play, other fancy online things? Or for old fashioned offline simming as well? I sincerely hope not.

You know for a fact a user will need a gamertag and Live ID? And to what extent, online play, other fancy online things? Or for old fashioned offline simming as well? I sincerely hope not.

Based off of the FAQ, yes. "'Microsoft Flight' is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service". All Games for Windows LIVE games require a gamertag\Windows Live ID to log in to the service. I don't know of any of them that require you to be online all the time though. They all have offline profile modes (or at least all the ones I have played).

We have to wait and see how it will be. I have few Windows Live games (like Batman: Arkham Asylum), and it is possible to make local account on computer not connected to the Internet.

I sure am hoping that you and not stonelance have it right!Regards, Mike Mann

Based off of the FAQ, yes. "'Microsoft Flight' is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service". All Games for Windows LIVE games require a gamertag\Windows Live ID to log in to the service.

I've always found that rather vague to be honest. Available on, sounds to me like I can only get MS Flight from a website. But I assume we'll also be able to buy a box set with DVDs. If so and if one is not interested in any of those services, then I'm not sure how the gamertag/Live ID requirement fits into it all. Perhaps I need to read up on what these services are exactly, a lot has been posted about it, but what's the real deal, I wonder. The only PC game I have, is FS9, made in simpler times.:(

I've always found that rather vague to be honest. Available on, sounds to me like I can only get MS Flight from a website. But I assume we'll also be able to buy a box set with DVDs. If so and if one is not interested in any of those services, then I'm not sure how the gamertag/Live ID requirement fits into it all. Perhaps I need to read up on what these services are exactly, a lot has been posted about it, but what's the real deal, I wonder.

I agree the whole naming scheme around the Microsoft PC games stuff is unclear, and complicated. Here are the differences as I understand them:"Games for Windows" - PC games titled as "Games for Windows" are games that have been tested and approved by Microsoft as being compatible with Windows."Games for Windows Marketplace" - The new "Games for Windows Marketplace" (www.gamesforwindows.com) is a Steam like service that allows digitally buying games and downloading them to your machine without having to buy a boxed version. Similar to the Apple app store, Window Phone Marketplace, etc."Games for Windows - LIVE" - These are titles that are integrated with Xbox LIVE and are purchased at a store, and\or from "Games for Windows Marketplace" or Steam or some other digital online store. These games use the Xbox LIVE service for achievements, leaderboards, multiplayer, chat, DLC (downloadable content), etc. When you first log into a game it will download an offline profile of your gamertag and you generally do not have to be online after that point unless you want to access the online parts of the game (viewing leaderboards, playing multiplayer, chatting with friends, comparing achievements, etc). You may be able to create a profile without ever going online, but I have never actually tried that, so I'm not sure.

Up to valid reasons I follow you, but after that I don't see how you go from simplified newsletter subscription to protection against lawsuits. They can always add a disclaimer if needed.

Wow you are a smart one.. but at the end of the day they got one of your emails and not someone elses. So if you want to spend your day making up accounts and submitting them go ahead. But realize the login system is probably smart enough to log your IP as well. So you might have to reconnect or change locations everytime.

The whole point of the Windows Live ID system is that it is a single, integrated login system that allows MS to maintain one database...Having a Windows Live ID allows one to access any and all of the public services that MS has available.Has anyone else noted the trend at some websites that will allow one to "login" using their Facebook, Google or YouTube account? It's really very convenient! :(