HI! I've just starting flying the Cheyenne (great plane and FDs), however, I always get the prop gearbox damage and subsequent engine failure. What am I doing wrong??I really only fly jets, so this is new to me. What is the protocol for feathering (e.g., autofeather), condition lever, and prop lever setting? I usually keep the prop lever full forward (or close to full) until out of climb, and the condition lever I lower a little as I climb towards high altitudes. I also keep my throttle about halfway (180-220 KIAS). Should I not autofeather on climb? Is there some other reason? I follow the checklists, but they don't seem to mention everything, nor does the POH.Thanks in advance,Chris

Hi Chris,I am getting the same thing as you, lots of times the gearbox gets damaged for no apparent reason. Plus the Cabin Pressure system as well. I am flying more or less the same way as you do, both, prop and condition lever to full forward on take off, then reduce the RPM back into the green region (1540 or less RPM), depending on the weight. Also, I keep the Autofeather armed throughout the flight. Solution? None just yet, so I tend to turn off Realism and Alarms. That way I can at least start the engines. To get the cabin pressure system working again, I re-install the aircraft. If you choose this way, be sure to get rid of all the files - some are left behind after uninstalling! Like c400.ini in your main FS folder...If anyone can come up with a tad more detailed procedures on how to fly this beauty, I would be very grateful. It's a gorgeus plane, hats off to FSD! When these little bugs get squashed, it will be perfect. Sorry Chris, this is all I can give you at this point. :)Regards,JureBush Flying Unlimited]"At home in the wild"[/i

Okay, thanks for the reply. At least I don't feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong. I thought those procedures regarding the the levers and autofeather were correct, but couldn't figure out why it damages the gearbox!Hopefully someone on here will have an answer for us.Chris

Hi GuysI havn't flown the Cheyenne in Fs9 or FS2002 only in real life so i am not sure if what i will say is true for the sim.In real life almost all PT6 powered aircraft are Torque limited due to gearbox weakness.The chances are you are using full power for take off which is a major error.Look in the manual to find max take off torque and then use that and you should hopefuly rmove the gearbox problems.Let me know how you go.All the best.

Hi Darren,"only in real life"?? :) I think I envy you, the Cheyenne is a beautiful bird in FS9. Must be even better in real life...But thank you very much for your reply! It seems that indeed, excessive power on take off was the reason for so many gearbox failures. I've been careful not to shove the throttles fully forward, but as the manual states that 100% torque should be applied for take off (someone correct me if I am mistaken), I usually tried to guess how much to advance the levers. Of course, more often than not, I overshot and the result was torque over 100%, even if for only a very short time (because I reduced power immediately). I just flew a few touch and go's, never pushing the throttles over 80%. Gearboxex are still in order! I wonder, could one find a Cheyenne PoH somewhere? I searched the Internet but without success so far. Looks like the FSD modelled her very well indeed, so it would be nice to be able to fly her right. Thanks again, Darren! :)Regards,JureBush Flying Unlimited]"At home in the wild"[/i

Hi,I made several flights in my Cheyenne over the last few days and have not destroyed any gearboxes. :) I am very careful to set take off torque and rpm on the roll and so far no engine damage with the realism settings on. Full throttle forward on my plane pushes torque well above 100% and must be adjusted down.Also Jure, the pressurization problem was fixed with a service release. Do you have the latest service release? Also, you must have spent a fortune on rebuilds! LOL.BobP.. :)

Bob,yes, I spent a fortune on repairs! Could've bought me a B737 for that money. :)I am not sure if I need the service release? I only bought the Cheyenne a week or so ago. Bob, how's the engine time and fuel consumption showing in the Load Manager? If the engines are running for, let's say, 30 minutes, I get 30 hours shown in the LM. And once I exit the sim, all values reset back to 0 when I run the LM next.Regards,JureBush Flying Unlimited]"At home in the wild"[/i

I don't know about the GMAX FSD Cheyenne 400 update for FS9, but the one I have for FS2002 has Garrett engines.The real Piper Cheyenne 400 has handed (props rotate in opposite diections) Garrett TPE 331 14A & 14B engines. The best that can be said about them is that they don't leak as much oil as the PT6. The PT6 is a superior engine in just about every way possible, and they definitely do not have a weak reduction gearbox.As a pilot and mechanic with many years of experience operating several different types of PT6 engines (-42, -45A & R, -65 and -67), I have never seen a reduction gearbox failure. I have seen power turbine failures of many kinds, from the chunked PT wheel variety to stretched PT blades that caused tip rub so severe that the prop could not be rotated by hand, but that is the only power section damage I have noted on these engines (that was over a time span of eight years, it may be that we were just lucky, but I doubt it). I have seen reduction gearbox failures in the early PW120 engines, but never anything severe enough to cause an in-flight shutdown. It was always metal (in one case a broken gear tooth) found on the RGB chip detector during a phase inspection. THe engines were operating normally prior to these discoveries, nobody suspected anything was wrong until the RGB chip plug was pulled. Pratt & Whitney of Canada builds great engines, and as far as an overtorque causing reduction gearbox failure is concerned, we had an ATR 42 incident involving one prop going into feather in cruise flight at 90% TQ. This was uncommanded by the crew, and when we downloaded the engine data from this event, an engine torque value of about 125% had been recorded. This was determined to be within transient torque limits and the engine continued in service!At the time, I believed the torque imposed on that engine was considerably greater than the 125% recorded by the DFDR (and I still do), but no RGB damage resulted and that engine continued to give dependable sevice and completed its TBO. As far as PT6 overtorques go, I remember a mechanic that I was training for certification on data speed runs for the Shorts 330/360 who accidentally pushed the power lever up too fast and ran the needle on the torque gauge beyond the redline of 3500 ft/lbs. I remember seeing at least 3700 before he quickly yanked it back, and we taxiied back to the hangar where I nervously consulted the Pratt & Whitney 'bible' for the torque limits. I was very relieved to find that the transient limits had not been exceeded (if I remember correctly, it was something like 3850). Even the most ham fisted and inattentive pilot would never push the power up that far for takeoff, but even if he did it's unlikely that damage to the RGB would result from sustained operation at that power setting. Temperature limits are more important on these engines, bad things will happen to the CT wheel and vane ring if the ITT limits are not respected.As for the Garrett engines and overtorques, I can't say as I have no experience with those engines. But from what I've heard about them, it wouldn't suprise me if they couldn't take much abuse.It goes without saying that all manufacturers operating limits should be respected on a real aircraft, but you can get away with exceeding them without immediate failure resulting. It is usually the cumulative damage (from hot starts for instance) caused by these events that causes engine failure at some point.

A 737 is only about $50, right? :)

FSD has a dedicated forum - you might get some help there too. You access it through their site. They are very good about keeping up with questions or answering e-mails.

FSD's forum has been down for a couple of days and remains so at the time of this post. They are really being daring! (upgrading server hardware!)ha! So until they get back online, this a the "home away from home". Thanks.Jure,I am getting the same error relative to engine hours. A one hour flight shows as 55 hours of engine time. Going to be real expensive!Douglas,Thank you for the excellent information on the turbo props!BobP :)

Darren, off topic, I was reading the posts and you mentioned in your little bio that you are a beta tester for PSS. Any idea when the new update for FS9 for my fav, the Dash 8 is coming out? I can never get anything out of the PSS guys. Poor customer service or something close to that, or just extremely busy....LOL BTW, I too have the FSD Cheyenne and I had the same problem, then reading the forums and manual, I found that RPM should be reduced to 1450 or so (at least in the "green") during cruise. Did it and had no more problems.Regards,Tom Stewart

The Cheyenne he is talking about is the 400LS model. It uses a much larger turbine engine than a PW PT6 like the Cheyenne III.Spec'sPiper Cheyenne 400LS Performance Specifications Engine: Garrett TPE331-14 Range: 1169 nm Horsepower: 1000 shp Service Ceiling: 41,000 ft Recommended TBO: 3000 hrs Sngl Eng Srvc Ceiling: 28,700 ft Wingspan: 47.67 ft 75% Cruise: 358 kts Length: 43.42 ft Stall: 92 kts Height: 17.00 ft Rate of Climb: 3242 ft/min Empty Weight: 7478lbs Sngl Eng Rate of Climb: 997 ft/min Gross Weight: 12,135 lbs Takeoff (over 50' obst): 2685 ft Maximum Fuel: 570 gal Landing (over 50' obst): 3805 ft Piper PA-42-720 Cheyenne III (prior to 1982) Horsepower: 720 Gross Weight: 11200 lbs Top Speed: 290 kts Empty Weight: 6389 lbs Cruise Speed: 275 kts Fuel Capacity: 382.00 gal Stall Speed (dirty): 87 kts Range: 1515 nm Takeoff Landing Ground Roll: 2560 ft Ground Roll 1770 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 3230 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 3017 ft Rate Of Climb: 2236 fpm Rate of Climb (One Engine): 531 fpm Ceiling: 32000 ft Ceiling (One Engine): 18200 ft

I guess I'll try reducing the RPMs. I have been keeping the throttle pretty low, so I know it can't be that the throttle is too far foward. I always keep it around 80% torque. We'll see next time I try.Chris

>(upgrading server hardware!)ha! Yes, a conspiracy behind every door !The forum is now back online, as of just a few hours ago. The upgraded DCF software (indeed the entire domain) was progressively relocated to a new dedicated server as opposed to a shared server we leased. The Forum was the last site function migrated. Shifting a complete site of this complexity is neither instant or 100% trouble-free.You should note we also culled the archives prior to 4/03. Most old posts preceding that date were irrelevant to current software builds. We (mostly) preserved the threads that continue to apply to our current build software.