John,I am still a little confused. If as stated previously, the GPS can be used for Area Navigation which would I assumed would include DP's and Star's. If flying a complex arrival with multiple turns and the turns I am assuming are just virtual intersections also. So if turns are virtual paths that would only leave the gps to rely on for a hand flown procedure. This would seem difficult if not impossible to follow the drawn procedure on the gps since the gps can be a very small screen and trying to follow the path would seem extremely difficult.

Naww it's really not difficult to follow the pink line lol! Obviously it becomes more difficult as speed increases if fully hand flown, but perfectly manageable.Someone was talking about STARS... there are STARS which require some sort of RNAV... where you do need to at least load it into your GPS/FMS/etc etc... example:DADES3 into KTPAhttp://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1101/00416DADES.PDF

Naww it's really not difficult to follow the pink line lol! Obviously it becomes more difficult as speed increases if fully hand flown, but perfectly manageable.Someone was talking about STARS... there are STARS which require some sort of RNAV... where you do need to at least load it into your GPS/FMS/etc etc... example:DADES3 into KTPAhttp://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1101/00416DADES.PDF

Like Ryan says, once you get used to it it becomes easier. Actually, from several ATP's that I know and who helped me a bit with questions when I was doing this rating, the IR is about as hard as they get. I can't say since this is as far as I have come in pilot training.Bob, it's interesting that you have a VFR PP license, what's your TT?Thanks, Bruce.

WRT using the GPS as your primary navigation device, I believe the requirement is that the GPS has to provide a course deviation indicator. This can be displayed on the unit, or with the GPS/NAV source switch routed to your VOR/ILS indicator or HSI. The indicator has to have variable sensitivity based on phase of flight. You might also need some RAIM capability to make sure the satellite signal is good.Note that besides RNAV there are also RNP procedures and the ones I've looked at are "GPS required". You have to be able to follow curved flight paths was well as the basic straight track to fix. scott s..

Hi Bruce,I will continue to work with it. VFR in FS can get a little boring even with some of the greatest addons. My son is a mechanical/electrical engineer for Lockheed and I keep reminding him how badly I need a 3 axis platform LOL. Ok Dad, after I get done with this next project he says. After you have been bit and flown for yourself it just isnt quite the same sitting on the ground. Add a glass of wine, some decent scenery, great clouds and a little turbulence, a nice clean clear cockpit with great instrument lighting and well not quite..... but enjoyable. I flew back in the late 60's and a little when I got out of the navy and then got married kids etc. and it just fell by the wayside. I still keep in touch with many that I met along the way though. Havent flown by myself in years but I always seem to find someone who has a plane! So I have been up flying quite a bit over the past 40 years, but not with any ifr pilots. I actually went back to ground school about 6 years ago at boeing field and was planning on doing it again, but then the loss of a job I decided to retire a little early. There is a guy I met at church and he flys for some regional company and got to know him fairly well. I was so suprised at how little money the guy makes as a commercial pilot. I had no idea how little money some of these guys actually make. Anyway, the wife wants to hear Mr. Obama speak so I will have to try to stay awake. Back to the GPS learning in the morning. RegardsBob

Like Ryan says, once you get used to it it becomes easier. Actually, from several ATP's that I know and who helped me a bit with questions when I was doing this rating, the IR is about as hard as they get. I can't say since this is as far as I have come in pilot training.Bob, it's interesting that you have a VFR PP license, what's your TT?Thanks, Bruce.

WRT using the GPS as your primary navigation device, I believe the requirement is that the GPS has to provide a course deviation indicator. This can be displayed on the unit, or with the GPS/NAV source switch routed to your VOR/ILS indicator or HSI. The indicator has to have variable sensitivity based on phase of flight. You might also need some RAIM capability to make sure the satellite signal is good.

'Primary source' in the context of IFR navigation (in the US) usually means the set of navigation devices that satisfy the regulations for required instruments for instrument flight (that's 91.205, if you want to read 'em). Most GPSs - even TSO'd GPSs - do not satisfy the requirements of the aviation regs for required instruments, and so are not considered 'primary navigation instruments'. This is not to say that you cannot use these GPSs as your primary instruments, bur rather you cannot depart IFR with only a functioning GPS. The WAAS GPSs, however, are approved as 'sole-source' instruments for IFR flight. The way to tell if a GPS is approved as sole-source or not is to look at the TSO it was certified under. TSO 129 is the old set of standards, TSO 146 is the new WAAS standard.I'm sure that's more detail than anyone wants, but I probably got it wrong anyway.

Back to the GPS learning in the morning.

If you are serious about upgrading your skills, this is the book to buy (and study..)http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/6565

Hi Bert,Now this is what I need... hand holding Looks like my kind of book.I will see if I can find it local first. Thanks to everyone for chimed in on this and I really do appreciate the help! Thanks BertBob

If you are serious about upgrading your skills, this is the book to buy (and study..)http://www.mypilotst...tstore/sep/6565

If you are serious about upgrading your skills, this is the book to buy (and study..)http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/6565

I'd also recommend more basic introductions to IFR flying, since Trescott's book only covers the GPS aspect. There are a number of good textbooks out there, but the FAA's handbooks are pretty good and freely available: the Instrument Flying Handbook and the Instrument Procedures Handbook. Printed copies are pretty cheap, too (check Amazon). The first is an instructional guide, while the second is a more detailed reference.

Hi,Thanks, these are actually very nice pdf's. I gottem bookmarked and will get them read.Thanks much!Bob

I'd also recommend more basic introductions to IFR flying, since Trescott's book only covers the GPS aspect. There are a number of good textbooks out there, but the FAA's handbooks are pretty good and freely available: the Instrument Flying Handbook and the Instrument Procedures Handbook. Printed copies are pretty cheap, too (check Amazon). The first is an instructional guide, while the second is a more detailed reference.

Hi,Thanks, these are actually very nice pdf's. I gottem bookmarked and will get them read.Thanks much!Bob

Hi Bob,Another very useful guide to IFR flying, "A Structured Approach" by John Eckalbar, a very good resource. Good IFR instruction by way of a virtual flight in CA, shows good applications of the IFR theory.http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13228He also has a later book dealing with WAAS which is excellent.Thanks, Bruce.

Thanks Bruce I will take a look at it. Geez, I think I need to quit my day job :( Bob

Hi Bob,Another very useful guide to IFR flying, "A Structured Approach" by John Eckalbar, a very good resource. Good IFR instruction by way of a virtual flight in CA, shows good applications of the IFR theory.http://sportys.com/P...p/product/13228He also has a later book dealing with WAAS which is excellent.Thanks, Bruce.