Ariane Sims... Could the customer service be any worse?

[steeleimaging 0]

Ariane has terrible customer service. You order a downloadable product, they charge your card (a very high price I might add) and then it takes forever to get the product.Ariane needs to get up to speed with the times. If you post you have a downloadable product, then when someone buys it, they should be able to get it. Not wait 48 hours for it.I had no desire to wait that long. Seems petty, but when I buy it, I want to fly with it. You buy from PMDG, you get it. Flight One, You get it. And you get it when you buy it.I wrote to them and said I was calling my bank to cancel the order… I got a reply about canceling my order and calling my bank, much later, with a ridiculous statement attached…Warning. Customers who decide to take matters into their own hands will regretfully be placed on a FORCED ILLEGAL REFUND database and their details will be shared with other sites, many of whom will bar them from all future purchases. In some cases, forced, illegal refunds can see offenders registered with agencies that will record their names and details with credit reference agencies and port authorities and this may affect their credit or their travel.You mean to tell me when I cancel an order with Ariane, those arrogant people think they have the clout to possibly restrict my travel with port authority? The insanity of it is mind boggling. (I will attach the entire statement at the end of this post.)When you do get an email from support, no one will sign their name. Pitiful. Poor customer service. There is no other argument around that.Further, is Ariane actually provided a good purchase experience, they would not have to post such a blatantly threatening disclaimer.When I did have the charges canceled… of which I NEVER received my download, Ariane threatened to contact my bank and have them “take action” against me. Really? You think Ariane can make that happen? It was laughable. I dared them to do it.I have read so many posts about the customer service. Awful. I have nothing to say about the product. I never got it. Perhaps the product is crazy good, thats fine. I have no argument about the development and functionality. I am not informed enough to comment about it.But when you see the following as a disclaimer on an email… do you really want to do business with them? Seriously. How big are their B***S to think that they can put you on a “list”. Research their so called list… look it up. Google it. Apparently it doesn’t exist or is so unsubstantial it doesn’t even warrant a hit.Ariane. No thank you.**Ariane Email Tag**NO REFUND POLICYFor many years software houses like this one have been operating a ‘NO REFUND POLICY’ with regard to download software. Many online stores operate a similar policy which is there for the protection of our industry since without it, there would be no flight sim and no development.All sales are final. We test all product/s to ensure that the product/s meet the specifications on our web pages and as per our terms there will absolutely be NO REFUNDS. We do not offer refunds on software that has been delivered to customers via download UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.Customers are encouraged to read all specifications prior to purchasing a license for the applicable product. If a customer purchases a license to a release version of one of our products we do not offer a cash refund or an exchange. Unlike physical goods, electronically distributed software and software licenses can be easily duplicated.Accordingly, it is our policy that once we have distributed a release version to a customer, the sale is final, and you may not return the software for a refund or credit.Warning. Customers who decide to take matters into their own hands will regretfully be placed on a FORCED ILLEGAL REFUND database and their details will be shared with other sites, many of whom will bar them from all future purchases. In some cases, forced, illegal refunds can see offenders registered with agencies that will record their names and details with credit reference agencies and port authorities and this may affect their credit or their travel.A NO REFUND POLICY stops piracy and is made very clear on our website terms and conditions that they all agree to it when they proceed to payment.Your option and right is to see that the product is operating as it is designed and as it has been specified and if not, then we will support you without charge via email until it is.Thank you for your understanding.

[n4gix 4,947]

Amazing that they seem to have found the time to reply to your "refund request email..." ...but somehow just couldn't find the time to send you the registration information!That simply defies any form of logic or common sense.

[steeleimaging 0]

Bill, It's funny you would even catch that.I brought that to their attention as well. The service for such expensive software is so bad, I am beyond disbelief.

[tf51d 284]

I bought their 737-800 X2 package but not from them, I got mine through Simmarket. I was lucky I got my key within 3 hours. I agree though their policies are over the top, and their prices are ridiculous by today's standards. Especially their pay per livery or livery pack model, that doesn't even allow you to do your own repaints. I have to say though, their models are pretty good, and right now is the only way to get a serious 737 NG for FSX. I think once PMDG's 737NGX and IFY's model are released, they will have to quickly change their ways if they are going to survive. Else they are going to be out of the 737 business for good.

[TheDanger 182]

I think once PMDG's 737NGX and IFY's model are released, they will have to quickly change their ways if they are going to survive. Else they are going to be out of the 737 business for good.

Should be :"Once PMDG's 737NGX and IFY's model are released, they will will not survive. They are going to be out of the 737 business for good."What do they have to offer against PMDG apart from bad customer service and high prices?

[kiwiflyer45 123]

If you go back a few years, the AVSIM administrators banned them from advertizing or posting on here. It accused them of questionable practices and used very strong language, that I will not repeat as I don't want to get sued. I was surprised when I saw them being allowed back on here. Sounds like the original decision was the right one. I certainly wouldn't even look at buying one of their products. May I suggest that this topic be moved to a forum where more people are likely to see and respond to it. Might be interesting to see how many people have also had negative experiences with this company.Ian

[Benjamin J 751]

My dealings with them were always rather pleasant. They responded soon enough - not immediately, but soon enough. I guess I simply accepted that I had to wait for some time before I got my key - it's been said so often that by now that you should have known. If you can't accept to wait the 48 hours that they claim you may have to wait, then don't buy at all...As much as I agree with these posts (about the bad service and stuff), I can't understand why people keep posting them. Surely people know by now about Ariane's bad reputation? And if they know, then how come they keep being stunned when they have to wait or get rude emails? And if people don't know these things, how come they spend such large amounts of money for what is essentially pixels on a screen without reading about it? if somebody can give some solid answers to these questions, then that would be great.

[steeleimaging 0]

I am new to the forum, So I do not remember the fiasco that went on a few years ago. But, that just gives my own brain a little justification for my dissatisfaction. I want to be very clear... I don't want to sound like I am berating a company and have not thought it through. I can not say one way or another about the quality of the products Ariane provides. I think this statement against my argument is pretty fair. I never got the product (even though they tried to charge my card.) The products they offer MAY be worth every penny, I just don't know. There are a few things that I believe:1. If you are going to offer downloadable products, make them available to download immediately after purchase. Making someone wait a few years ago when download links had to be sent manually, I get it. In todays world, that doesn't fly.2. Provide a better customer service experience. If they were to do this, they wouldn't have SO much bad press. (My fault for NOT researching prior to my purchase attempt.) 3. Provide more than ONLY an email address for service. Offer a forum link to support. Something. Anything.4. If their service wasn't SO incredibly awful, they wouldn't have to have ALL of the ridiculous disclaimers. Disclaimers are born out of experience. Ariane demonstrates that it must have an overwhelming reoccurring problem with refund demands.5. And this one just kills me... Don't threaten to put people on the "Forced Illegal Refund" list. This is just beyond bizarre. Further, for them to have the arrogance that they are powerful enough to affect a persons travel through a port authority is just silly. It's so far to the left of a scare tactic it's not even realistic. The point you reach this kind of critical mass in rhetoric, is when reality sinks in to the consumer that you are probably dealing with an individual or group of people who's egos and self worth are so over inflated that there is no hope of rationalizing your point with them.

[tf51d 284]

5. And this one just kills me... Don't threaten to put people on the "Forced Illegal Refund" list. This is just beyond bizarre. Further, for them to have the arrogance that they are powerful enough to affect a persons travel through a port authority is just silly. It's so far to the left of a scare tactic it's not even realistic. The point you reach this kind of critical mass in rhetoric, is when reality sinks in to the consumer that you are probably dealing with an individual or group of people who's egos and self worth are so over inflated that there is no hope of rationalizing your point with them.

If you read the sentence above this policy, you would see they do this if you dispute a charge after you have received the product (and presumably activated it.) This is to prevent theft. In this case once you received your refund, what's to stop you from continuing to use it? By it's nature downloaded software has this risk, as there is no physical product to return. Some developers prevent this by phoning home to verify licensing each time you use it, but people don't like this method either. Flight 1 with it's wrapper has the best system I've seen, and as such does permit refunds within 30 days. Actually I think many companies with unsecure products, like downloadable software use these types of lists, they just don't advertise it. I don't think being put on such a list once will have much of an effect, but if a pattern starts to develop, you may see companies refuse service. If it's used that way then I don't really see a problem.

[Benjamin J 751]

I am new to the forum, So I do not remember the fiasco that went on a few years ago. But, that just gives my own brain a little justification for my dissatisfaction. I want to be very clear... I don't want to sound like I am berating a company and have not thought it through. I can not say one way or another about the quality of the products Ariane provides. I think this statement against my argument is pretty fair. I never got the product (even though they tried to charge my card.) The products they offer MAY be worth every penny, I just don't know. There are a few things that I believe:1. If you are going to offer downloadable products, make them available to download immediately after purchase. Making someone wait a few years ago when download links had to be sent manually, I get it. In todays world, that doesn't fly.2. Provide a better customer service experience. If they were to do this, they wouldn't have SO much bad press. (My fault for NOT researching prior to my purchase attempt.) 3. Provide more than ONLY an email address for service. Offer a forum link to support. Something. Anything.4. If their service wasn't SO incredibly awful, they wouldn't have to have ALL of the ridiculous disclaimers. Disclaimers are born out of experience. Ariane demonstrates that it must have an overwhelming reoccurring problem with refund demands.5. And this one just kills me... Don't threaten to put people on the "Forced Illegal Refund" list. This is just beyond bizarre. Further, for them to have the arrogance that they are powerful enough to affect a persons travel through a port authority is just silly. It's so far to the left of a scare tactic it's not even realistic. The point you reach this kind of critical mass in rhetoric, is when reality sinks in to the consumer that you are probably dealing with an individual or group of people who's egos and self worth are so over inflated that there is no hope of rationalizing your point with them.

I do not disagree with you. I agree with every point. BUT, every time I see such a post (not only yours, but others that complained about Ariane's customer service), I can not help but think: "All this could have been avoided if the OP would have done some research into this company". See, they ask a lot of money for their products. I myself would never just buy the product without at least looking around if there are some reviews, and see what people are saying about the company. Here is my point: Ariane is an infamous company and there is lots of stuff to be found on them here at Avsim and other sites. All of them sort of say the same thing: the plane is great, the rest is terrible. As such, you either take the risc of trouble, or you leave it. There is no room anymore for surprise in this case... And to be honest, with the iFly 737 for FS2004 and PMDG's NGX that will supposedly be released soon, there is actually no reason to buy Ariane any longer... (but that's a whole different story)

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

If you go back a few years, the AVSIM administrators banned them from advertizing or posting on here. It accused them of questionable practices and used very strong language, that I will not repeat as I don't want to get sued. I was surprised when I saw them being allowed back on here. Sounds like the original decision was the right one. I certainly wouldn't even look at buying one of their products. May I suggest that this topic be moved to a forum where more people are likely to see and respond to it. Might be interesting to see how many people have also had negative experiences with this company.Ian

Ian,I am more than a bit surprised by your post. We have never had a request by them to advertise here. Were they to want to advertise (which I suspect will be like the proverbial "snowball" you know where), we would have a very long think about it and then probably say "no thanks". And, I don't recall ever banning them from posting here. In fact, I can tell you that frequently in the long distance past, we have asked them to post here and respond to the many posts about their "practices". In fact, we even publicly offered to set up a support forum for them when they appeared to be adverse to setting up their own (that offer was met with total silence). And... I don't recall seeing a post from anyone in that organization or its predecessor since the Peter Tishma days. As for others suffering from similar treatment, a search here in the forums and the nearly two millions posts here will yield a tremendous amount of opinions and facts dealing with this company; I can guarantee it.

[steeleimaging 0]

If you read the sentence above this policy, you would see they do this if you dispute a charge after you have received the product (and presumably activated it.) This is to prevent theft. In this case once you received your refund, what's to stop you from continuing to use it?

Thats all fine and dandy... But I never got the product. They attached that to the email when I told them I was cancelling the payment. No other email had that disclaimer on it. It would be one thing if I downloaded, installed and activated it. But, I never even got it.

I do not disagree with you. I agree with every point. BUT, every time I see such a post (not only yours, but others that complained about Ariane's customer service), I can not help but think: "All this could have been avoided if the OP would have done some research into this company". See, they ask a lot of money for their products. I myself would never just buy the product without at least looking around if there are some reviews, and see what people are saying about the company. Here is my point: Ariane is an infamous company and there is lots of stuff to be found on them here at Avsim and other sites. All of them sort of say the same thing: the plane is great, the rest is terrible. As such, you either take the risc of trouble, or you leave it. There is no room anymore for surprise in this case... And to be honest, with the iFly 737 for FS2004 and PMDG's NGX that will supposedly be released soon, there is actually no reason to buy Ariane any longer... (but that's a whole different story)

Benjamin...You are SO right. I have no excuse for not doing the research. I don't. But, that was never my point.

[n4gix 4,947]

As much as I agree with these posts (about the bad service and stuff), I can't understand why people keep posting them. Surely people know by now about Ariane's bad reputation?

The answer to that question should be self-evident!If there were no such posts, where then would a "newbie" read about these complaints and poor customer service issues? :Thinking: If ever the "bad press" manages to reach critical mass, then one of two things are likely to occur: said company is forced to change, or said company is forced to close from lack of revenue.Either case would be acceptable... :Applause:

[scoob 18]

Peter Tishma

:Shocked: WOW :Shocked: ... tom actually wrote the name. i haven't seen this in a llllloooonnnngggg time.:Cuppa: --

[TheDanger 182]

:Shocked: WOW :Shocked: ... tom actually wrote the name. i haven't seen this in a llllloooonnnngggg time.:Cuppa: --

If you google his name every web link is flight sim related and none appears to have anything good to say about him.Its amazing just looking at all the different domains - shows how widespread his infamy is :Shocked: Here is a quote from a user comment for a game on pcworld

Overall Evaluation: I would not under any circumstance buy this product. Not because it is old, but because of one of the creators, Peter Tishma (You veteran flightsimmers are probably all twinging at this name). For those of you who are thinking of buying this product, I strongly urge you to read the AVsim article (http://www.avsim.com/pages/0902/pt_again.html).

ARTICLE LINK