Ariane Sims... Could the customer service be any worse?

[steeleimaging 0]

Graham...Wow. Thanks for the link to the article. So the way they run customer service at Ariane is apparently the way he runs his life... A mess.

[Guest acezboy561]

Who is Peter Tishma? I googled it, and his name came up with stuff to AVSIM.

[kiwiflyer45 123]

Ian,I am more than a bit surprised by your post. We have never had a request by them to advertise here. Were they to want to advertise (which I suspect will be like the proverbial "snowball" you know where), we would have a very long think about it and then probably say "no thanks". And, I don't recall ever banning them from posting here. In fact, I can tell you that frequently in the long distance past, we have asked them to post here and respond to the many posts about their "practices". In fact, we even publicly offered to set up a support forum for them when they appeared to be adverse to setting up their own (that offer was met with total silence). And... I don't recall seeing a post from anyone in that organization or its predecessor since the Peter Tishma days. As for others suffering from similar treatment, a search here in the forums and the nearly two millions posts here will yield a tremendous amount of opinions and facts dealing with this company; I can guarantee it.

Hi TomMy facts are probably a bit 'wooly' as it was a very long time ago and the only reason I remember it at all is that it was very strongly worded. I had never heard of the company prior to the announcement. As I recall, it was posted as an announcement - probably five or more years ago?? And I'm sure you are right about them not advertizing on here - all I remember is that after years of silence I started seeing announcements from them on AVSIM and thinking to myself that either they had reformed themselves or the policy had been dropped.Anyway, sorry if I was incorrect. As I say, I had never heard of them before I read about their shady practices on some kind of announcement on AVSIM and have kept well clear of them since then.I'm certainly not trying to stir the pot - just chipping in my 1/2 cents worth. There are so many incredibly good people in the add-on business and it's a shame that there's an occasional person who takes advantage of innocent people.

[n4gix 4,947]

For a glimpse of just how long this absurd behavior has been going on, read this from 09-20-1999:http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?165656-A-Open-Letter-to-Peter-TishmaMore "recent" this one from December 04th, 2006!http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/does-ariane-design-peter-tishma-new-disguise-help-137808361.htmlActually, the problems with Pappa Tango (aka BOB, Peter Tishma, etc.) began back in the early 90's......so this nonsense has been going on for 20+ years now!

[Benjamin J 751]

The answer to that question should be self-evident!If there were no such posts, where then would a "newbie" read about these complaints and poor customer service issues? :Thinking: If ever the "bad press" manages to reach critical mass, then one of two things are likely to occur: said company is forced to change, or said company is forced to close from lack of revenue.Either case would be acceptable... :Applause:

These already exist and there are a lot of these posts around Avsim. A newbie could do a search and would get a waterfall of old posts about Ariane, thus informing him about Ariane. He could then make an informed decision, making new threads as this one unnecesary.

[meshman 109]

... A newbie could do a search and would get a waterfall of old posts about Ariane,

IMO, doesn't matter if the person is new or an old-timer in the community. Doing some research prior to a purchase is always a good thing.Using tags to identify a member of this or any other community can be taken in a negative tone. Some sites claim you are a Newbie based upon post counts, yet I've seen members here who are "Newbies", but have been members for 5 or 6 years. Someone elsewhere called me a n00b because they didn't like one of my postings and I post little at that site. I gave a brief background of my contributions and how it affected their purchases and er, shut him up.So Newbie or Member 2000+ doesn't relieve a consumer of their responsibility to being an informed buyer.

[steeleimaging 0]

Hey all...I just received an AMAZING reply from Ariane about my complaints. The gave me a 'hypothetical' situation about how I would feel if the contacted all of my clients, stations, bank, etc. even calling the police. It's priceless. I replied to them, and am waiting a response. Stay tuned here. I may post the email in its entirety just for the sheer entertainment value.

[scoob 18]

I replied to them, and am waiting a response.

if you processed a 'refund', or purchase cancel, through your credit card i recommend you walk away and block the ariane email address. you are done the the company ... you only can cause more trouble for yourself by continuing to 'spare' the the person(s) at ariane.

I may post the email in its entirety just for the sheer entertainment value.

be careful ... the email may be protected and some take such a reposting by you by making your life very expensive. you could find your $100 software (if you didn't get a 'refund') is now worth a few more thousand in lawyer fees.based you your sig hotlink you work with people/companies daily that love to 'lawyer up'. there is a reason when i was amazed that tom referenced Peter Tishma directly.IMO you need to walk away from this situation and file as 'lesson learned'.--

[Bob Scott 7,721]

be careful ... the email may be protected and some take such a reposting by you by making your life very expensive. you could find your $100 software (if you didn't get a 'refund') is now worth a few more thousand in lawyer fees.

I disagree...hiding and walking in constant fear of some constantly-lurking threat from a nefarious lawyer boogie-man are not the actions of a free man.Especially if the entity in question is located in another country and can barely afford a pot to p*** in, much less a solicitor with international reach sufficient to harass a private everyday citizen in another country.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[scoob 18]

I disagree...hiding and walking in constant fear of some constantly-lurking threat from a nefarious lawyer boogie-man are not the actions of a free man.

i agree ... but in the US because of the way law is used such a situation no longer exists. you can spend $1000s proving you are correct in every way because the US legal system is broken (maybe for good).read the books below written by Phillip K. Howard -

* the death of common sense: how law is suffocating america* the lost art of drawing the line: how fairness went too far* Life without Lawyers: liberating americans from too much law

--

[steeleimaging 0]

First... I don't know what Flight Sim company on planet earth thinks they have the clout to claim they can restrict travel because of a refund. I work in an industry that can be pretty rough and tumble. So if you are going to threaten someone who works in it, you might want to be prepared to follow through. Most people in my business don't back down to easy and certainly don't hide and and cower from threats. This company may have been able to push around other consumers, but I won't be one of them. Additionally, I have already stated that I can not say anything negative about the software. It may be fabulous. It may be the best designed and coded software on the market. I however, would not know. I never got it.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I could wax poetic on this whole subject. :Big Grin: In fact, when I get around to finally writing my book on the history of flight simulation, Pappa Tango, Peter Tishma, Ariane, Bob, et al, will be covered in Chapter 3! Title? "I will live to see the bodies of my enemies floating down the river"... That is a quote directly from Peter Tishma that was made to one of our staff when we were investigating the whole PT / American Airline BS that he tried to foist on the community in the late '90's. It was an implicit threat to our staffer. It is a derivative of an ancient Hindu prayer if my memory serves.

[steeleimaging 0]

Hey Tom!The quote has been linked to Confucius, but never really proven. About all anyone can agree on is that it's a Chinese origination. I received another reply from Ariane... I don't think they even know what they are talking about. I already had my bank reverse the charges... the money is back in my account. Is has been from day 2 of this mess. I never had to really wait. I have been with my bank for a while and when I tell them the charge needs to be reversed... they do it. Rarely, is there ever a question.So, in the reply email, the person said they would now refund my money. I had to sit back in my chair and read it again. Since, I already have my money, what are they going to do? Send me more money? I have already sent a note to my bank asking my banker to periodically check the account and see if there is a deposit in the specified amount and if there is, to return it. It was as if everything I had gone back and forth with them over, they never even paid attention to. I couldn't believe it. I am changing your quote to:I will live to see the money of my enemies pour into my bank account. -then, I have instructions to my bank to return it. I am just amazed by all of this.

[avgaskoolaid 292]

Wow, I am really surprised at all of this. In my experience (not a ton, but bear with me) people in the aviation/flight sim community are almost all polite, friendly, respectable people (at least online.) This Tishma dude needs to realize that not everyone out there is going to love his product, and that he needs to come up with a refund system (if he can create a complex sim addon, he can think of a refund system). I also agree with w6kd. Ariane, I'm sure, is not a big company at all, they couldn't do much harm. And the emails all seem to be empty threats.

[steeleimaging 0]

Hamoody...That is why I was so stunned. Their response was so unbelievable, I had to share my experience and vent.Trust me... if this company thinks that threatening people is the way to win business... they will be sorely disappointed with the long term success of the company.