HiThis is my first post on Avsim, so pardon if it seems a bit rough around the edges. :( I have FS9.0, not patched. It's plain vanilla except for the fact that I have tweaked some aircraft.cfg files, soundpacks and panel cfgs, and I have added a carrier scenery (car2004.zip). I just have a few quick questions.1) When I set the radio frequencies into my Nav1 radio and set my DME to Nav1, the DME does not show anything (specifically, "--nm, --kt"). Only when I switch to Nav2 does the DME show any readouts. Is this a bug with FS9 or is the DME designed this way? B/c I've read tutorials for both FSX and FS9 and they say to switch to Nav1 in FSX and switch to Nav2 in FS9 to get readouts. :huh:2) Considering that I am not a pilot IRL, I'm still a bit shaky on ILS approaches. This constitutes all my knowledge on shooting ILS approaches. a. Tune Nav1 to localizer freq, turn OBS/course knob to rwy hdg, set NAV/GPS to Nav (from GPS if flying direct GPS)b. Follow ATC c. If doing traffic pattern, descend to G/S intercept altitude (lightning-bolt arrow on approach plate), fly a LONG final while setting up G/S, Loc :( d. Line up with ILS feathers on GPSe.Center glideslope, localizer needles f. Press APP, sit back and relax, disconnect autopilot at 500 ft and land Is there any more to that, or did I get the basic gist of it? My knowledge of IFR navigation is limited at best, so please enlighten this fellow simmer! Please use real-life procedures as examples if possible! Thanks for reading! :(

HiThis is my first post on Avsim, so pardon if it seems a bit rough around the edges. :( I have FS9.0, not patched. It's plain vanilla except for the fact that I have tweaked some aircraft.cfg files, soundpacks and panel cfgs, and I have added a carrier scenery (car2004.zip).

The first thing I would do here is patch it to 9.1, as most addons require it.

I just have a few quick questions.1) When I set the radio frequencies into my Nav1 radio and set my DME to Nav1, the DME does not show anything (specifically, "--nm, --kt"). Only when I switch to Nav2 does the DME show any readouts. Is this a bug with FS9 or is the DME designed this way? B/c I've read tutorials for both FSX and FS9 and they say to switch to Nav1 in FSX and switch to Nav2 in FS9 to get readouts. :(

Remember that not all navaids have DME. You will often have a VOR or ILS with no DME attached to it, and therefore you won't get any readings. Similarly, you can also encounter a DME only beacon, with no VOR. It's a bit more rare but they certainly are out there.

2) Considering that I am not a pilot IRL, I'm still a bit shaky on ILS approaches. This constitutes all my knowledge on shooting ILS approaches. a. Tune Nav1 to localizer freq, turn OBS/course knob to rwy hdg, set NAV/GPS to Nav (from GPS if flying direct GPS)b. Follow ATC c. If doing traffic pattern, descend to G/S intercept altitude (lightning-bolt arrow on approach plate), fly a LONG final while setting up G/S, Loc :( d. Line up with ILS feathers on GPSe.Center glideslope, localizer needles f. Press APP, sit back and relax, disconnect autopilot at 500 ft and land Is there any more to that, or did I get the basic gist of it? My knowledge of IFR navigation is limited at best, so please enlighten this fellow simmer! Please use real-life procedures as examples if possible!

I'd suggest looking up some tutorials, the web has loads of them. The full approach usually starts far before you intercept the localizer, and you'll fly either an ATC-instructed approach or follow a published procedure (STAR) according to approach plates for the airport. The STAR (or ATC vectoring) should spit you out into the ILS approach. It is also not usual to leave the autopilot on in GA aircraft for ILS approaches, and it is good practise to hand fly the entire procedure. Again have a look at some tutorials, there are good tips on capturing and maintaining the localizer and glideslope.Instrument flying contains many details that can't really be put into one post, and it depends how real you want to get. In the real world, you won't need that GPS at all to find the ILS. You'd intercept the localizer course at about 30 degrees in level flight and turn into it, then follow the glideslope down when you fly "through" it. There is also no "traffic pattern" as you'd expect in instrument flight. In real life we also do all sorts of altitude checks on the way down the glideslope, and the entire approach is briefed thoroughly before even starting the descent. Even when I'm alone I'm constantly talking to myself on an instrument approach. You also want to have the missed approach procedure in the front of your mind etc... I'd say check out some tutorials and download a set of charts for your favourite airport, including arrival and departure procedures. There is a definite flow to follow with regard to tuning radios, selecting OBS courses etc... Maybe if you post a particular approach here we can discuss that one in more detail.When you get it right, it's immensely satisfying, both in real life and in FS9!

First, I'm not a pilot.About the 1) question, check your DME receiver. Make sure its source is set to NAV1.About the 2),No traffic pattern before an approach. A traffic pattern is a part of landing. In addition, when you're circling, you must be able to see the runway visually on the traffic pattern at all times in IFR. If you missed the runway on the traffic pattern, you must go missed-approach. I mean, no ILS are required on traffic patterns. If your position on approach is not aligned with the runway using , FS ATC recognize you're on the traffic pattern, but that is a mistake of FS ATC design.Generally, you'll get to an approach fix on your chart with STAR. Charts of the world are available on the net. Just search [the country] AIS. For USA, access flightaware or airnav.But in some airports, is especially big or in USA, or in FS ATC, you'll be vectored. In this case, just follow the heading directed by ATC.Set the ILS frequency and the course to your radio. But be careful, there are two types of radio. One is NAV(VOR) & LOC integrated, the other has separately a NAV receiver and a ILS receiver. When you find your localizer needle starting to move, turn in order to capture the localizer on center. When the glideslope is centered, just start to descend .If you perform circling, and got runway insight, stop descending to enter the traffic pattern at the altitude of the traffic pattern. Then ILS/LOC of the runway is not required anymore. Land visually without radios.If you don't perform circling, just continue descending. If it's not ILS approach but LOC approach, check altitude restrictions on chart. When you got runway insight before DA/MDA(DH/MDH), just land. Autopilot is not for persons who can't fly himself, so practice hand-flying without visibility(before DA). I recommend a small GA aircraft for it first.Sorry for my English.

1)Does it work with nav2 and not with nav1 when both are using the same frequency? Or do you use different frequencies?Not all ILS have DME and sometimes you need to tune nav2 to a seperate DME on the field while nav1 receives the ILS.Is this with a specific aircraft or with all?2)Here is a navigation tutorial: http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/There are a number of ways to get lined up with the ILS:-ATC vectors-The GPS contains approaches under the PROC button-Reallife instrument approaches can be found on the net-You could setup you flightplan the end at a point/navaid in line with the ILS (if available) and follow the GPS-You could use the GPS as a top down view to fly the plane into the green ILS featherA simple method is the following:-Fly directly to the airfield-When you are overhead the runway turn onto the ILS' reciprocal heading and fly away from the field (you can use the localizer to stay on the right track)-When you are well under the glideslope perform a procedure turn-Fly towards the field using the ILS and land

As said above, DME is not always available and you need to check your approach charts to ensure that it is. For the purpose of an ILS approach however, it usually is. DME is measured in nautical miles. On an ILS approach you won't usually pick it up until within 20nm.A couple of things that many here don't seem to do that are important for a good ILS approach:-1. Make sure your speed is low at around 180kts. Real life ATC will know your a/c type and will issue speed referrences accordingly. However, most jet transports will easily handle speeds as low as 180 for an approach. During your ILS descent you will then reduce your speed down to your target Vat which is dependent on your weight2. Your a/c should be vectored about 30deg offset to the localiser beam heading. i.e. If the localiser beam is set to 270deg then you should intercept it at 300/310 or 240.3. Always establish on the localiser BEFORE the glide slope otherwise your AP will not capture the glide slope.4. Check the ILS procedures for your destination airport. They usually give you your localiser intercept altitude.Almost all the information you need regarding speeds, heights and altitudes can be found on your ILS approach plate for the airport of your destination.vololiberista

Thanks for the responses so far, but this ILS stuff is still making my head spin :( I still have some questions. Please bear with me will the localizer be intercepted if you fly on the runway heading? for instance if the localizer is at 270 can you fly at 270 and still intercept the beam? Will ATC vector you to the 30 deg offset heading, or do you have to fly to it yourself? And can you press APP (approach hold) as soon as the localizer comes alive, or do you have to wait for the localizer needle to center first--or do you have to wait for both needles to center before you press APP? Are direct GPS flights common in real life?

If you fly the localizer heading then you will be flying parallel to the localizer and parallel lines never meet.That means that if you are on the localizer you will stay on it but if you are not on it you will never reach it (and neither get away from it).\(provided that there is no wind, of course)The autopilot will fly you onto the localizer if it has to but it may take a lot of unnecessary manouvering.I find that things go smoother if I put the plane on the localizer and on the right heading first before turning on approach mode.You should turn on approach mode while you are under the glideslope.I would recommend that you fly the approach yourself rather than relying on ATC to put you in the right spot.You'll learn a lot more about navigation and the use of your instruments.Do the approach in your head or on paper before the flight so you know what to do when you are in the plane.

If you fly the localizer heading then you will be flying parallel to the localizer and parallel lines never meet.That means that if you are on the localizer you will stay on it but if you are not on it you will never reach it (and neither get away from it).\(provided that there is no wind, of course)The autopilot will fly you onto the localizer if it has to but it may take a lot of unnecessary manouvering.I find that things go smoother if I put the plane on the localizer and on the right heading first before turning on approach mode.You should turn on approach mode while you are under the glideslope.I would recommend that you fly the approach yourself rather than relying on ATC to put you in the right spot.You'll learn a lot more about navigation and the use of your instruments.Do the approach in your head or on paper before the flight so you know what to do when you are in the plane.

How can I possible doing this when flying IFR flightplan with the ATC? After TOD for a couple of minutes the ATC will send message about ILS approach and then later will require to turn to different headings,different from the flightplan itself.

You don't have to fly an IFR flightplan or use the FS ATC.If you fly a VFR plan you can still navigate using instruments.

You don't have to fly an IFR flightplan or use the FS ATC.If you fly a VFR plan you can still navigate using instruments.

Oh I see, thanks a lot, but I'm still confuse one thing,and I confuse about this in real world too.How can we know which runway we will land at the destination airport? And about Sid/Star/trans how can we know which one we will use? Or we just choose the one which we are heading toIn real world they use VFR or IFR?

Oh I see, thanks a lot, but I'm still confuse one thing,and I confuse about this in real world too.How can we know which runway we will land at the destination airport? And about Sid/Star/trans how can we know which one we will use? Or we just choose the one which we are heading toIn real world they use VFR or IFR?

For commercial flights, they always use IFR. So they got instructions from ATC.For example, if you filed a flightplan that leads you to a waypoint which is common to some SIDs, ATC will choose one.Though it may be refused, they can make a request in flight.For example, on an approach, direction of the wind has changed rapidly. The pilot may ask the tower if he can do circle-to-land.Company radios may also help them know the weather conditions, but you should listen to the ATIS, which tells you runway using, before contact with tower.

For commercial flights, they always use IFR. So they got instructions from ATC.For example, if you filed a flightplan that leads you to a waypoint which is common to some SIDs, ATC will choose one.Though it may be refused, they can make a request in flight.For example, on an approach, direction of the wind has changed rapidly. The pilot may ask the tower if he can do circle-to-land.Company radios may also help them know the weather conditions, but you should listen to the ATIS, which tells you runway using, before contact with tower.

Thanks for your reply,it helps me a lot. Well,in Fs2004,when decending the ATC will send the approach message includes the runway , but because following the ATC,it tells me to turn to this heading than that heading and I don't know which sid/trans I can use for landing until the final moment contact to tower. That is,however,really close to the airport. Not quite realistic is it?

Whether VMC or IMC, ATC will tell you which is the landing rwy. The real life situation which the default ATC doesn't do at all is for your a/c usually to arrive at the end of a STAR. This will often in reality be a holding point as well. Real ATC will then vector you off the stack and down to a position and heading from which you can then establish on the localisor. Once established you will be asked to change frequency to the tower. Once on the localisor check that you glide slope indicator is live (i.e. the GS flag will not be showing)If it is live then it's ok to hit the APR button on the AP ONLY if it is showing that you are below it!!!As far as STAR's are concerned they end quite some distance away from the airfield thus allowing ATC substantial freedom in vectoring a/c around a busy airport. For example London Heathrow has a movement every 40 seconds!!In essence ATC will vector you on a heading and altitude which will intercept with the localisor. You call established, change frequency to the tower, continue, allow the AP to capture the glide slope, thereafter adjust speeds and flap settings according to your a/c weight schedule in order to be at Vat as you cross the hedge.Simple!!!vololiberista

Whether VMC or IMC, ATC will tell you which is the landing rwy. The real life situation which the default ATC doesn't do at all is for your a/c usually to arrive at the end of a STAR. This will often in reality be a holding point as well. Real ATC will then vector you off the stack and down to a position and heading from which you can then establish on the localisor. Once established you will be asked to change frequency to the tower. Once on the localisor check that you glide slope indicator is live (i.e. the GS flag will not be showing)If it is live then it's ok to hit the APR button on the AP ONLY if it is showing that you are below it!!!As far as STAR's are concerned they end quite some distance away from the airfield thus allowing ATC substantial freedom in vectoring a/c around a busy airport. For example London Heathrow has a movement every 40 seconds!!In essence ATC will vector you on a heading and altitude which will intercept with the localisor. You call established, change frequency to the tower, continue, allow the AP to capture the glide slope, thereafter adjust speeds and flap settings according to your a/c weight schedule in order to be at Vat as you cross the hedge.Simple!!!vololiberista

Wow very useful information you have! Thank you!!! Therefore as long as I use the default ATC,I will have to discontinue my route when decending and follow their instructions until establish the localizer,right? If that so then I can't set my plane to fly to a certain STAR?

Wow very useful information you have! Thank you!!! Therefore as long as I use the default ATC,I will have to discontinue my route when decending and follow their instructions until establish the localizer,right? If that so then I can't set my plane to fly to a certain STAR?

No! The only way you will be able to fly SID's and STAR's is to use programmes like PFE or RC4 which replace the default ATC. With PFE you can also fly an "Initial Approach Procedure" which gives you precise instructions on altitude, heading and speed thus giving you much more freedom.vololiberista