Wow very useful information you have! Thank you!!! Therefore as long as I use the default ATC,I will have to discontinue my route when decending and follow their instructions until establish the localizer,right? If that so then I can't set my plane to fly to a certain STAR?

In real, generally you will be lead to an approach fix(IAF, IF, FAF) by STAR. Then you start an approach normally.But in some large airports, especially in USA, STAR will lead you not an approach fix but a waypoint, on the way, ATC will vector you to approach course.For this type of STAR, sentences like this, "...then via R-123 to AAA. Except radar vectors to final approach course." are given on STAR charts.In FS, FS ATC has no concept of SID/STAR. You takeoff, are vectored with climbing, proceed on course(along airways), level off and cruise, then FS ATC will give an instruction of vector to final approach course when FS ATC decide. You set STAR, then descend along it halfway, but FS ATC will vector you suddenly. You may follow the instruction.But there is an another way that you ignore FS ATC and just continue your route along STAR to an approach fix.In this case, FS ATC will annoy you with frequent command, but just ingore. It hands off to tower when you are near the arrival airport.Of course, in real life, ATC is like a god except TCAS. You must not ignore them

No! The only way you will be able to fly SID's and STAR's is to use programmes like PFE or RC4 which replace the default ATC. With PFE you can also fly an "Initial Approach Procedure" which gives you precise instructions on altitude, heading and speed thus giving you much more freedom.vololiberista

Hi.Complete agreement here. Get an ATC addon. I use Radar Contact 4 but I feel (from reading) that in terms of quality there isn't much difference between the favourites. When you get into creating your own flight plans and filing them for a flight with an addon ATC (which really is well worth having) you will be able to do a couple of things to ease your choice of runway:1. File a plan for which the last waypoint is common to two opposing runways. (I suspect that in real life this would be the end of a STAR, at a hold, though I don't fly in the real world).2. Shortly before arriving you can change comms frequency to get a weather or ATIS report for your destination and so decide (probably based on wind direction) which instrument approach to fly (i. e. which runway to use). The addon ATCs allow you to 'fly yourself' along instrument procedures if you wish, or to accept further vectors from the controller. Note that FS9 will always put the other AI aircraft onto the ILS runway as a first choice, then take other things into consideration so you're likely to make a lot of ILS landings with a tail or cross-wind. Makes choosing the runway easy if there's only one ILS at the airport...3. If you wish to fly an ILS approach with the autopilot in approach mode you really do have to start underneath the localiser beam and fly horizontally into it in order for the autopilot to capture the beam. Trying to descend steeply into it from above is 1. really difficult, 2. unlikely to work and 3. dangerous. Watch out for high ground in hilly areas!I guess that, in the real world, large commercial companies have a despatcher at most of the airports they use who will provide pilots with up-to-date information on which runways are in use et c. It's a shame FS9 doesn't provide a similar service.Regards,Dave

Thank you very much for all your helps. I guess I need to turn my Fs world to an upper level by trying PFE.Are there any tutorials or videos about PFE that I can preview before purchasing it?

No! The only way you will be able to fly SID's and STAR's is to use programmes like PFE or RC4 which replace the default ATC. With PFE you can also fly an "Initial Approach Procedure" which gives you precise instructions on altitude, heading and speed thus giving you much more freedom.vololiberista

It is possible to fly a SID or STAR in FS9 and use the default ATC. Here is how I do it: Set up your flight plan with a STAR and/or SID. Program it into the GPS or file a flight plan. Follow your SID on departure. Now ATC will tell you to make turns. Acknowledge the instructions but DO NOT FOLLOW THEM. Continue on with your planned SID. Now ATC will badger you to make the requested turn. Again, do nothing but follow your plan. Eventually, ATC will catch up to you when you establish your course and you can procedure on your way. Follow the same procedure on arrival. If you do not answer at least the first request, ATC will cancel your flight plan.Or, you can file an VFR plan, follow your SID, then when on course, request to file an IFR plan.I know that this is not realistic, but ATC is not all that realistic either. So, I just do it MY WAY!Jim D.

Starting to wrap my head around this. So in a nutshell:a. ATC vectors me to localizer/rwy hdg and glideslope intercept altitude (lightning bolt arrow on approach plate) b. I set rwy course in OBS/CRS, set localizer freq in Nav1, slow to approach speed (~90 kts in Cessna 172). I wait for the localizer needle to move, then center the needle. c. I then press APP, wait for the AP to capture the glideslope, then ride the approach down, disconnect AP at 500 ft and land. Or if I'm not feeling lazy (which is not very often), I can just hand-fly the approach. Right? For instance, if I was flying a direct GPS from KHWD to KSTS, what would I do once ATC guides me in? what are procedure turns and what do they do for your approach?

b. I set rwy course in OBS/CRS, set localizer freq in Nav1, slow to approach speed (~90 kts in Cessna 172). I wait for the localizer needle to move, then center the needle.

If there is a VOR on the field, I'll tune my Nav2 to it, and set runway heading on the OBS. It gives you much more warning than the narrow ILS beam does. Once the VOR needle starts to center, you know you can expect the ILS needle to start moving soon, and therefore you need to turn onto runway heading. Don't wait for it to center as you'll fly through the localizer and have to come back a bit (depends on wind too). Also, especially at busy airports, I'll have my C172 going at 100 knots, clean, even down the glideslope. When you are within 4 miles of the runway you can slow down to whatever speed you need to land, and ATC can't complain. That's how it works in real life anyway. Keeping your speed up on the approach is hardly textbook flying but often there's a 737 catching up behind and 4 miles is plenty to slow down and configure the aircraft for landing. Remember all the checklists here, you'll want to do the downwind checks at this stage too, even if you're on final approach.

c. I then press APP, wait for the AP to capture the glideslope, then ride the approach down, disconnect AP at 500 ft and land.

Almost... you can press APP before you capture the localizer. Your AP should have ALT and HDG engaged initially. When you intercept the localizer (the AP does this for you), the HDG light will extinguish. Now it's looking for the glideslope, and as you capture that, the ALT light will also extinguish, leaving just the APP mode engaged as you start the final approach. So the localizer part of APP takes over from HDG, then the glideslope part of APP takes over from ALT, to put it simply.

For instance, if I was flying a direct GPS from KHWD to KSTS, what would I do once ATC guides me in? what are procedure turns and what do they do for your approach?

Try all of the above first, before we get to procedure turns :) And try hand flying more often, things like procedure turns and missed approaches are often easier hand flown, I find. You'll be timing legs, keeping your speed exact, and your altitude, making accurate turns, timing some more, descending a bit, levelling off, tuning radios, talking to atc, turning, timing... it gets very busy. And when you're a pro we'll do some complicated NDB letdowns and then you feel like an idiot all over again. It's a great thing to master, and very satisfying to land in low visibility following a complex approach.

So on the AP, HDG is for the rwy heading, ALT is for the G/S Intercept altitude right? And so you're saying that if you're on the rwy hdg and at the gs int alt directed by ATC you can press APP as soon as the Localizer needle starts moving? Or can I just press APP whenever I want and the AP will capture the GS and Loc for me? And what is the range of the localizer? i.e. How far away do i have to be able to intercept the ILS?

If there is a VOR on the field, I'll tune my Nav2 to it, and set runway heading on the OBS. It gives you much more warning than the narrow ILS beam does. Once the VOR needle starts to center, you know you can expect the ILS needle to start moving soon, and therefore you need to turn onto runway heading. Don't wait for it to center as you'll fly through the localizer and have to come back a bit (depends on wind too). Also, especially at busy airports, I'll have my C172 going at 100 knots, clean, even down the glideslope. When you are within 4 miles of the runway you can slow down to whatever speed you need to land, and ATC can't complain. That's how it works in real life anyway. Keeping your speed up on the approach is hardly textbook flying but often there's a 737 catching up behind and 4 miles is plenty to slow down and configure the aircraft for landing. Remember all the checklists here, you'll want to do the downwind checks at this stage too, even if you're on final approach.Almost... you can press APP before you capture the localizer. Your AP should have ALT and HDG engaged initially. When you intercept the localizer (the AP does this for you), the HDG light will extinguish. Now it's looking for the glideslope, and as you capture that, the ALT light will also extinguish, leaving just the APP mode engaged as you start the final approach. So the localizer part of APP takes over from HDG, then the glideslope part of APP takes over from ALT, to put it simply.Try all of the above first, before we get to procedure turns :) And try hand flying more often, things like procedure turns and missed approaches are often easier hand flown, I find. You'll be timing legs, keeping your speed exact, and your altitude, making accurate turns, timing some more, descending a bit, levelling off, tuning radios, talking to atc, turning, timing... it gets very busy. And when you're a pro we'll do some complicated NDB letdowns and then you feel like an idiot all over again. It's a great thing to master, and very satisfying to land in low visibility following a complex approach.

So on the AP, HDG is for the rwy heading, ALT is for the G/S Intercept altitude right? And so you're saying that if you're on the rwy hdg and at the gs int alt directed by ATC you can press APP as soon as the Localizer needle starts moving? Or can I just press APP whenever I want and the AP will capture the GS and Loc for me? And what is the range of the localizer? i.e. How far away do i have to be able to intercept the ILS?

No, not quite. HDG should be set at the course for intercepting the localiser - which as a general rule should be 30 degrees greater than runway heading if approaching the localiser from the left and 30 degrees less if approaching from the right. So for an approach to a runway 27, set HDG 300 from the left and 240 from the right. Even the default ATC normally gets this right though, and will give you vectors for intercepting the localiser properly. ALT should indeed be set for the altitude at which you intercept the glideslope. That obviously varies from one airport to the next (depending on runway height above sea level, for one thing) but you won't go far wrong with 2,500 to 3,000 feet above ground level in most cases. The default ATC is less reliable on this - it can sometimes give you an intercept altitude that's far too high, for instance, particularly if clearing you for finals from a long way out. I've had "maintain 10,000 until established" a few times, which would only work at very high altitude airports like Johannesburg or Denver. But once you're handed off to the tower you can descend to a sensible altitude without them nagging you about it, so it doesn't really matter. If you already have HDG and ALT set as above, you can engage APP mode as soon as you receive a glideslope signal. You don't need to wait until the localiser needle starts to move - in fact, the sensitivity of localiser beams means that happens quite quickly and your a/c may not be able to turn onto the runway heading in time if you leave it that late (ie, you'll fly through the localiser). By default, FS9 localisers have a range of about 27 nautical miles, and glideslopes about 20-21. In real life (and, it seems, at some addon airports), it varies.

Thank you very much for all your helps. I guess I need to turn my Fs world to an upper level by trying PFE.Are there any tutorials or videos about PFE that I can preview before purchasing it?

There's plenty of stuff on Youtube!vololiberista

It is possible to fly a SID or STAR in FS9 and use the default ATC. Here is how I do it: Set up your flight plan with a STAR and/or SID. Program it into the GPS or file a flight plan. Follow your SID on departure. Now ATC will tell you to make turns. Acknowledge the instructions but DO NOT FOLLOW THEM. Continue on with your planned SID. Now ATC will badger you to make the requested turn. Again, do nothing but follow your plan. Eventually, ATC will catch up to you when you establish your course and you can procedure on your way. Follow the same procedure on arrival. If you do not answer at least the first request, ATC will cancel your flight plan.Or, you can file an VFR plan, follow your SID, then when on course, request to file an IFR plan.I know that this is not realistic, but ATC is not all that realistic either. So, I just do it MY WAY!Jim D.

no! It's not realistic at all! In fact less realistic than leaving it entirely to FS ATC!! PFE and RC4 are a step in the right direction. and that's as far as "they" go!vololiberista

So once I see the glideslope start to move I press APP? APP will center the localizer for me, right? So far, I understand this much about ILSa. ATC vectors me on 30 deg approachb. Check AP for glideslope intercept altitude (ALT) and 30 deg ILS heading (HDG), adjust throttle to proper approach speedc. Set NAV1, set OBS/CRS, check Morse code, obtain landing clearance ("cleared for ILS approach runway...")d. Once cleared, press APP (and/or hand-fly)I'm getting confused. Do I press APP when the glideslope starts to move (per previous suggestions), or do I press APP when I'm on rwy hdg and obtained landing clearance (as instructed by previous tutorials I've read)? :( I have a huge stack of papers I've printed out on ILS approaches and apart from setting the course and tuning the radios, they tell you completely different ways on flying ILS (GPS vectors, lining up CDI needles, hand-flying, straight-in approaches, etc)With all due respect, shouldn't I press APP when the localizer needle starts to move? B/c you have to intercept the localizer before you intercept the g/s. In real life, would you turn on APP if you saw the localizer move, or would you turn on APP if you saw the glideslope move?The reason why I'm sticking to autopilot approaches is because I'm too lazy to hand-fly approaches. I'll take your suggestions and hand-fly some though :(

There's plenty of stuff on Youtube!vololiberistano! It's not realistic at all! In fact less realistic than leaving it entirely to FS ATC!! PFE and RC4 are a step in the right direction. and that's as far as "they" go!vololiberista

It is MY way of doing it. I tried both of the programs you mention and they weren't realistic in some ways as well. I don't need to put out money for programs that I didn't really like. No need to get upset about the way I set up my SIDs and STARs. To each his own. I just posted how I do it and the reader can decide for themselves what they want to do. And as I mentioned previously, it isn't realistic, but it's the way I do it .Peace,Jim D.

So once I see the glideslope start to move I press APP? APP will center the localizer for me, right? So far, I understand this much about ILSa. ATC vectors me on 30 deg approachb. Check AP for glideslope intercept altitude (ALT) and 30 deg ILS heading (HDG), adjust throttle to proper approach speedc. Set NAV1, set OBS/CRS, check Morse code, obtain landing clearance ("cleared for ILS approach runway...")d. Once cleared, press APP (and/or hand-fly)I'm getting confused. Do I press APP when the glideslope starts to move (per previous suggestions), or do I press APP when I'm on rwy hdg and obtained landing clearance (as instructed by previous tutorials I've read)? :( I have a huge stack of papers I've printed out on ILS approaches and apart from setting the course and tuning the radios, they tell you completely different ways on flying ILS (GPS vectors, lining up CDI needles, hand-flying, straight-in approaches, etc)With all due respect, shouldn't I press APP when the localizer needle starts to move? B/c you have to intercept the localizer before you intercept the g/s. In real life, would you turn on APP if you saw the localizer move, or would you turn on APP if you saw the glideslope move?The reason why I'm sticking to autopilot approaches is because I'm too lazy to hand-fly approaches. I'll take your suggestions and hand-fly some though :(

you can hand fly or leave it to the AP as you wish(In the Sim!!) But generally at a busy airport in the UK and Europe the real ATC prefer you not to hand fly because from their point of view it is necessary to expedite your descent and the AP does that best!!! You can request a visual approach but that is only accepted in CAVOK conditions and when/if they are not busy.Basically your full ILS procedure should be:-1. final vector to intercept the localisor (in Real life given to you by ATC. The heading being 30deg + or-5deg. Again in real life ATC would have allready given you a speed advisory - In the Sim you have to do that yourself)2. Intercept the localisor as above at a speed of 180 kts IAS. Your AP should be on NAV3. (In real life not in the Sim) you would now call e.g. "Speedbird 2578 established 27R" In the sim you should be in touch with the tower.4. If the glide slope indicator is active (moving or not) and it indicates you are below it(the glide slope) then you can hit APR on the AP and the AP will guide you down.If you are lucky enough to have autoland then this is the time you can get out your sandwiches or finish your crossword puzzle!Depending on the a/c type as prescribed in its flight manuel now slow the a/c down using the prescribed flap/throttle settings. When to select "Gear Down" etc. so that you arrive over the hedge at Vat.Easy stuff really. But remember the maxim "A good landing is made at the top of the glide slope" What it means is to prepare and think about your landing well in advance. This also stops the AP porpoising the a/c left and right, up and down because a.Your intercept angle was not right and b.You were too fast.vololiberista

Thanks for the clear reply! How do you know if the glideslope indicator is active? And is this following real-life procedures?

Thanks for the clear reply! How do you know if the glideslope indicator is active? And is this following real-life procedures?

The horizontal line will begin moving downward. It would be beneficail for you to read some tutorials and information on the web to get a better grasp of these procedures. You will also have something to reference if you do. Here is one site for your lessons: http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htmJim D.

Hey,is there any way I could download all airport charts around the world ? Or I have to manually download each of them through searching?