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NAVDATA IS CLOSING ... It's a bl**dy shame!

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This is really dissapointing news esspecially when you read why Richard Stefan is closing down. I'm very proud of our selfs as flightsim community!!Read here what Richard Stefan says: (http://www.navdata.at/)"NAVDATA IS CLOSING ... last cycle is outHi all,the new cycle is out, but it was my last public cycle due heavy critism and not fair mails of many user in the last 14 days. I saw this every time as a hobby and i know, that i

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Yeah, I hope he changes his mind too!Its really pathetic how some people have audasity to complain and send such nasty emails to someone who has given so much to this community. Please mate, reconsider? For the silent majority who quietly thank you for what you've given?

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That is really a shame to read. Richard has gave so much for all of our pleasure and for some to attack the guy for some things not correct in a cycle is a really stupid and selfish move on thier part, maybe the idea of FREE did not cross their minds. Richard, you have been a inspiration to many of us who know you have done this strictly for the love of the hobby, I wish you well sir and thanks again for the many years of dedicated work.[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

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Well great, lets thank the jackasses out there who appear to have once again ruined an awesome project by complaining and expecting the world out of the developer for nothing in return... This is unbelievable - I don't even want to know what these people said to Richard to prompt this - I think he's done an amazing job and all the high-end addons that rely on his navdata are gonna take a nosedive because of this. Terrible news - Richard if you're reading I'd urge you to reconsider - there are many more out there who appreciate what you do than this vocal minority who likes to complain.Here's a big middle finger to those who did this...Ryan

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I'll agree here just sent Richard an email it takes many hours of free time and to share with our community...But there are out there some real impolite people that don't have respect and appreciation for freeware....I'll think it's time for all us freeware contributors to join and stand-up against some impolite people....If you don't like it just don't use it and go on with your lives pfff...:(:(:(:(:(:(B)Thank you Richard for all your great work and the many hours of enjoyment I'll had out of it :-)Andr

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I agree with all that has been said already. It is a shame that some people manage to be so selfish and short-sighted.I really would like to thank Richard for all the time and effort he spent to make this hobby so much more fun for everybody. Whatever his final decision will be, he deserves our full support.Best regards,Henri

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I also feel compelled to reply to this, even though I have not used Nacdata myself, unless it's been included in some other package and as such I was unaware of it....However....what strikes me here is much in line with something I wrote a couple of days ago in a different thread ("slippery slope").It is folks like this who give SO much of their time and their lives and produce freeware product of a top quality that give the big-boys with their payware such a hard time, by always moving the goal-posts, pushing that bar ever higher....I have seen a lot of references to Navdata and so know of how highly regarded it has become....and yet it has always been free.....For a few narrow minded to fools to insult the developer of this, and other quality freeware products is beyond 'biting the hand that feeds you'...it really is putting this hobby of ours on a slippery slope. Just because they cannot get a programme to work on their PC's doesn't automatically mean that the programme is broken....all of us rational folk understand that PC's are not like console games systems, and that there are thousands of variations, and worse still, it frequently depends upon HOW you, as a user, actualy use the damn thing...you screw around with demo's and beta stuff, don't use a firewall or anti-virus software, well...don't come crying when your PC gives up!! What d'you expect if you abuse it?? Windows is delicate enough anyway (NOT an anti Windows/Microsoft rant there BTW.....I am firmly in favour of it), so if your new freebie addon for FS9 doesn't work either, ask yourself why.....it's most likely your machine at fault in some way. The freeware developers of stuff like Navdata have been at this for long enough to know when a beta is still a beta, and they are not under any pressures from any publisher/distibutor to get the product out fast to make a quick buck. I think it's trrible that developers like this one, and look too at how folks like Project OpenSky, iFDG, Project Airbus, ProjectAI, to name but a few, get lambasted every time something isn't quite millimetre perfect, or it crashes their system (but NO-ONE elses...). Read the forums on these folks' websites and you see the abuse that they take! It's wrong! This stuff is for free...shut the f*ck up if you can't contribute with more than abuse! Especially when we're talking well known and respected freeware developers! If it's payware, then it's a different story...you have a contract involved because you have paid hard cash....see all the fuss at the moment over PSS and their so-called FS2004 patch (didn't work for me either for A320Pro :-( but so far you haven't seen any complaints from me...I'm waiting to let them work it out).If you're dealing with unknown freeware stuff and it doesn't work, and you can't suss it out...move on, leave the insults behind (it obviously works for at least one person!), if you're dealing with one of the other better known freeware developers, ask for help, sure, but keep it civil...these guys know what they're doing, and if it doesn't work for you then there's probably a perfectly good reason, but remember it's probably working just fine, thank you very much, for thousands of others....Quit the abuse, quit the rhetoric, you have no 'rights'....this stuff is done for free, for YOUR benefit. If it doesn't work for you, move on....you've lost nothing bar a few minutes. The developer has lost several hundred hours trying to produce this...and it works for him and thousands of other folks......Apologies for going on...just wanted to get that off my chest! This post was the catalyst, having seen SO many other futile #### sessions...life's too short!!

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I agree,I wrote this e-mail to Richard, I felt that I simply HAD to.Hi Richard.Firstly, I must admit to being one of the people who have used you're product for free for many years now,and until now have come to take it for granted, well. I am going to miss you're NavData very much. I am familiar with the sort of e-mails you are talking about who do nothing but critisize about something that is FREE for ALL of us to use,I have nothing but apathy for those people who spoil our ever popular and rapidly growing hobby.I wish there was something that I could say that would make you change you're mind,and I am certain that you have already had a lot of mail from people who wish the same thing as I do.but in the end I can appreciate you're making this decision. it will however be a sad day when you finally close,and to show you what I am talking about I put it to you in this way, I view the closing of the NavData site with the same sorrow as the last flight of the Avro Vulcan and of course Concorde. that's how important I viewed you're software.perhaps with hindsight if we had ALL contributed to the running of the site by making it a membership site with a yearly fee then maybe you wouldn't have felt like you have been taken for granted.I wish you well Richard in whatever decision you decide to take, but please,before you close the door for good.think about the people who do wish you well,and who do appreciate you're generosity and software,and try to ignore the few who do not, they are indeed a minority who quite frankly,are idiots.may I take this opportunity once more to say that I wish YOU and you're Family a Wonderful Christmas and a very Happy New Year.Thank you Richard for ALL you're years of sheer dedication.Steve Williamson. UK

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There goes another... Let's see how many more we'll have to lose until people realize there's something wrong with their attitudes.Daniel P.

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Another shame. Reminds me of Project Freeware, CSi, etc. People can take just so much of that crap, then throw in the towel.

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Unfortunately it isn't that these idiots (I'd like to use very much stronger language than that, but this is a family show) don't know there is something wrong with their attitudes - it is that they just don't care. You see it every day, whether driving a car, in a supermarket or wherever. They have grown up thinking the world owes them everything and they owe nothing, and unfortunately in many societies, that attitude is being reinforced every day. If the good folks like Richard leave, the idiots referred to herein just shrug their shoulders and move on to the next hobby. They don't give a damn about flight simming, other people, or for that matter, anything or anyone but themselves. They should be proud, for at that goal at least, they are doing a near-perfect job. It's the rest of us "humans" that pay the real price caused by these whiny little cry-babies. Until we can figure out how to stand up and fight this, then actually do it, we will continue to be the victims at the hands of these sub-human characters.

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Hello All,You know, it IS a shame. We have so many 'Children' in this hobby, who just 'expect' this to be a perfect world, and don't appreciate what they get for free . . . which happens to be the product of hours upon hours of difficult, hard work, for little or no pay by the freeware designers that keep this and other web sites afloat.These 'Children', (some of them even past the age of reason, and legality'), just don't give a damn what they say, or how they say it and only wish to have their lame opinions heard. It seems to me that to build ones self up at anothers expense is equal to being one with very little brain power and self esteme.These kids think we owe them something . . . for the pleasure of their 'not so wonderful' company, and blessed words of wisdom.Well, I for one continue to just shake my head and wonder how long it will be before they totally kill off all the freeware designers because of their immature attitudes. And yes, those of you whom I am talking about know exactaly who you are . . . not that it will change.Have you ever tried to say something 'nice' about someone's product?.Of course not, nor have you contributed to our hobby with any freeware of your own . . . mostly because you are a 'user', not a contributor.Unfortunately, this will not change. In my years following this hobby since FS4, I have seen countless talented individuals quit and stop giving, because of the voices of the ignorant children who do nothing but slam others and complain about things they are given for free . . . makes you wonder what a world we are creating.And by the way, I wish to stress that when I use the word 'Children', I am not talking about age . . .its a mind set.Best to all the adult 'mind sets' in our hobby and perhaps we can do something to stop these kids from running off everyone who has something to offer.Clayton T. DopkeMajor, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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I wrote Richard and told him that I agree with him 100% with his decision, thanked him for his past work, and told him to enjoy his life- He deserves it.I'm someone who started doing this FS work for free, had to move to pay (lest I go broke doing it), and also pay for flying for real. I'm in a position to say that those folks that want "realism" and "perfection", while complaining all along the way need a reality check.Visit the Jepp site, and see what this stuff costs for real. My real download GPS nav data for just the USA, not the entire world, costs me $125 per year, and that does not include my IFR and VFR paper charts, the cost of which, just for the North East USA, is over $300 a year. ;-)I know that the majority of users appreciated what Richard provided, but all it takes is a minority to spoil it for all. There are even those who might have appreciated what he did, but did not realize that when it comes to free navdata, that almost ANY complaint might be unwarranted, due the enormous amount and the complexity of the data, and the need to convert it into various formats. In essence, even if not perfect, when it comes to nav data, be happy with what you get when it is for FREE. Don't kid yourself, even when you pay for it for real flying, mistakes do occur.Heck, I pay for the real stuff, and still do not get perfection. Often, we do not know what we have until we have lost it. That is definitely the case here.Regards,Lou

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man,i tell ya,i'm not violent by nature,but to see these kind of things happen makes me wanna kill some of the a##holes responsible.Richard,thanks for the continuous devotion you put into the navdata files,i hope you'll continue flightsimming,enjoy life,enjoy simming,and afa the emails go:they'll learn one day,and i hope they learn by crashing into a brick wall ;-).

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Too bad it's come to this but I completely understand.There are some people out there that expect perfection and expect it for free and then just love to complain if they don't get it. On top of that they expect free tech support via email.A few days after we opened our website, I had to remove my email address from our web site becaue I just could not keep up with all the email. So only way people can now contact me is thru our forums. I would advise any other freeware developer to do the same, makes live much easier. Make these complainers post in a public forum and then they will get bashed in public by the rest of the community and be forced to go crawl back into their hole.My advice to you is go enjoy your family, some things are more important than flight simulator. Some people forget this little fact.Matt Foxhttp://afcad.projectai.com/

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I think all of us should write him to show our support for his gracious efforts to us all. He may or may not change his mind but it never hurts to try. Heck I would pay for it in a minute if he went that route.

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Sad. Perhaps AVSIM would like to sponsor this service. There's no where else on the web where one can keep current with navigational data. If not AVSIM, maybe a virtual airline. Regards,Dave Vega

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Just a thought: I'm sure there are mature adolescents among us, but they seem to be outweighed by the immature ones :(. This hobby has been badly affected by mentally unstable teenagers, who bicker and criticize for the sport of it!It really annoys me when I see posts like: "So when do you guys go back to school?" ..... :-mad ...... not everybody is a kid!!! :-roll!Five years ago, this hobby was dominated by mature and caring individuals ...... what the heck has happened!!!!!!!!! :-eek

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Here, here! I second that!!I've never used Navdata personally, but I believe that any freeware developer is contributing what he/she can to the flightsim community, and we should be completely grateful for any such effort, even if it doesn't seem to meet our "standards".People who develop freeware addons for flight simulation have a real passion, they love what they do. To have someone complain about any aspect of it that isn't quite right is completely self-centered, and in my mind an idiot.Don't give up, Richard. We need more people like you!James

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This is one of the biggest losses ever suffered by the flight simulation community.Maybe some of you can't realise it but nothing is ever going to be the same without updated navigation data. In a year, or even less, we will all be using completely outdated data for our flight planning. I wonder how this people who drove Richard out, in their strive for "absolute" realism, will cope with that, assuming that they will still be in the hobby of course, which I highly doubt...A very annoyed...

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Yes, I agree with you entirely. That's one reason why I don't post much in these forums is the fact there are too many 'kids' with immature mentalities. A prime example is, in another post about the new SGA MD-80 series coming out, I made mention about how the engine nacelles looked as if they needed further rotation. I didn't cut the work of SGA down, and think it looks absolutely wonderful. All I did was offer a couple of suggestions. Next thing I know, I'm being 'flamed' by some kid who obviously is too immature to understand the difference of 'constructive criticism' vs. actual 'criticism'. It's too bad it happens. The only intent I had was to make something great even better. I even provided the necessary information to do the trick. Now, it's just up to SGA.As a developer myself, I devote my time to doing the best I can with what I've got for information. Not everything is perfect in this world, nor will it ever be. I guess what I do is 'try' and get it perfect, but it doesn't always happen.Anyway, like you, I don't know what has happened. It's definitely getting out of control. Quite possibly Avsim needs to have 'age verification' which could only be done through a credit card. Avsim wouldn't need to charge users, just verify their age. Only problem is, even some of the ones over the age of reason aren't 'with it' entirely.Allan

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This is a true disaster !!!!!And I clearly see a pattern here.....It is very easy to see why this have happened......and my scenario suspicions are these...# A payware developer thinks....- What if I should make some bucks in selling Nav Aids on a subscription basis-. But there is one Freeware guy who suplies this information for free !!Well,..the easy way to remove this guy, is to tell some friends to send him some nasty mails inorder for him to "pack his bags" and dissapere. And woala...the market is wide open for a payware guy to operate as he wants. :-(And I will not remind you all with the famous phrase "I told you so" when it happens.Staffan AhlbergSweden/Stockholm/ESSA

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I don't think age has anything to do with it. The worst offenders are the "adults" on these forums.A wonderful free resource is ending due to the rudeness and immaturity of a small number of people (not kids not pensioners just PEOPLE). Maybe Richard would reconsider restarting with a subscription only service which only registered users could access. At least then he could find out who the bad apples are and end their subscription if they get abusive. Just an idea. Or maybe someone else would be willing to run the service if Richard continued with the updates.RegardsAdam Moore(38 years old and still feeling 18..)

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Obviously the sh$t's hitting the fan on this one people. It's really too bad. I only hope he re-considers and finds a better way to work around things. One idea is, not to give user's his e-mail address. That way, if they do wish to complain like that, they won't have a chance. Another thing to report a bug or legitimate concern would be to fill out a specific form on a webpage without any room for 'comments'. Just a few ideas I came up with that I feel would put an end to what he must have had to deal with.Allan

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>This is a true disaster !!!!!>>And I clearly see a pattern here.....>>It is very easy to see why this have happened......and my>scenario suspicions are these...>># A payware developer thinks....- What if I should make some>bucks in selling Nav Aids on a subscription basis-. But there>is one Freeware guy who suplies this information for free !!>>Well,..the easy way to remove this guy, is to tell some>friends to send him some nasty mails inorder for him to "pack>his bags" and dissapere. And woala...the market is wide open>for a payware guy to operate as he wants. :-(>>And I will not remind you all with the famous phrase "I told>you so" when it happens.>>Staffan Ahlberg>Sweden/Stockholm/ESSAYou're right :( The greedy have spotted an opportunity to make some money, so they attack the freeware authors :( I've seen it several times this year :(I think that a Hall of Shame should be created!!!

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