I would argue that anyone purchases the NGX(or any other product) should be given the source code. As standard as they are, anti-decompilation/reverse engineering clauses are BS. If I buy a product, I deserve full access. Regardless of the legal status, as far as I'm realistically concerned, I'm making a purchase of a product, not this licensing nonsense. Same thing with music, books, whatever.No offense, PMDG. I understand why you use them, I just disapprove of that entire methodology, as popular as it is.

One thing I bet will make people scratch their heads at first is that LNAV actually activates and becomes the green/active mode on the FMA if you push it on the ground before takeoff (most of the AP modes will actually), there's no white armed mode + engage at 400 feet stuff, no idea where we originally got that from lol.

So we can simulate the RNAV off the runway to SNUFY in Atlanta properly? :( :(

That's either an incredibly naive or arrogant question--Oh, by the way, PMDG, could I go over your source code??Jack Hancock

"Naive or arrogant".. Yeah... right :)Btw... have you been inside a development environment before? (Closed or open source?) Go and take a walk over any of these links and try to see what they are:Microsoft ConnectnVIDIA issues trackerNokia QT bug trackerSee? There are lots of "naive" and/or "arrogant" users out there :(

I would argue that anyone purchases the NGX(or any other product) should be given the source code. As standard as they are, anti-decompilation/reverse engineering clauses are BS. If I buy a product, I deserve full access. Regardless of the legal status, as far as I'm realistically concerned, I'm making a purchase of a product, not this licensing nonsense. Same thing with music, books, whatever.No offense, PMDG. I understand why you use them, I just disapprove of that entire methodology, as popular as it is.

What is more important and strategic for a software company than the logic behind the code? Why would you want to see the source code if it's not to "steal" ideas? you can't have a patent on a software model / analysis so protecting the code is the only way of protecting your business

I would argue that anyone purchases the NGX(or any other product) should be given the source code. As standard as they are, anti-decompilation/reverse engineering clauses are BS. If I buy a product, I deserve full access. Regardless of the legal status, as far as I'm realistically concerned, I'm making a purchase of a product, not this licensing nonsense. Same thing with music, books, whatever.No offense, PMDG. I understand why you use them, I just disapprove of that entire methodology, as popular as it is.

When you buy a product, you DO NOT deserve full access. The source code is PMDG'S proprietory legal right. You better start respecting legal rights or your going to get yourself into trouble. When I mentioned accessing PMDG'S source code in my previous posting I was being sacastic, just kidding.Jack Hancock

What is more important and strategic for a software company than the logic behind the code? Why would you want to see the source code if it's not to "steal" ideas? you can't have a patent on a software model / analysis so protecting the code is the only way of protecting your business

Well, not really. For example, as a software developer, i appreciate having access to the source code. I can fix things by myself. I don't have to wait until the developer fixes it. (This don't apply to pmdg, they make very polished products).FSX for example... If we could have had access to the source, we could fix lots and lots of bugs, and improve lots of things. improve the multi core support, make it 64bit ready, add cloud shadows, improve the flight model, atc, weather, etc etc.There is another popular addon developer that makes a 757. Their 757 looks very good but is full of bugs. I don't fly with it anymore. i have the knowledge to fix the bugs, but i cant, because i don't have access to the source. so i just burned my money.In a perfect world, every user should have access to the source code.

What is more important and strategic for a software company than the logic behind the code? Why would you want to see the source code if it's not to "steal" ideas? you can't have a patent on a software model / analysis so protecting the code is the only way of protecting your business

Copyright still applies. There are plenty reasons to see source code. To learn, to fix, to extend, etc.

When you buy a product, you DO NOT deserve full access. The source code is PMDG'S proprietory legal right. You better start respecting legal rights or your going to get yourself into trouble. When I mentioned accessing PMDG'S source code in my previous posting I was being sacastic, just kidding.Jack Hancock

Please don't imply that I'm going to get myself in trouble. They own the copyright to the code. They should show it to their customers. I don't expect them to. In this environment, it wouldn't be a good idea. In an ideal world, it would be a great idea, and if the paradigm shifted a bit it would be a great idea.

"Naive or arrogant".. Yeah... right :)Btw... have you been inside a development environment before? (Closed or open source?) Go and take a walk over any of these links and try to see what they are:Microsoft ConnectnVIDIA issues trackerNokia QT bug trackerSee? There are lots of "naive" and/or "arrogant" users out there :(

I am not interested in viewing anyone's source code or bug tracking system if I am not a member of their team. I think you got a little hurt from my blunt remarks but really, it's not proper to ask to get inside PMDG'S working parts. It's their project. We are here to enjoy (and pay for) the fruits of their labors.My mistake is defending PMDG when it's none of my business and they do a great job without me.When I mentioned looking at the source code I was kidding. You know, as in humorous.--Jack Hancock

Well, not really. For example, as a software developer, i appreciate having access to the source code. I can fix things by myself. I don't have to wait until the developer fixes it. (This don't apply to pmdg, they make very polished products).FSX for example... If we could have had access to the source, we could fix lots and lots of bugs, and improve lots of things. improve the multi core support, make it 64bit ready, add cloud shadows, improve the flight model, atc, weather, etc etc.There is another popular addon developer that makes a 757. Their 757 looks very good but is full of bugs. I don't fly with it anymore. i have the knowledge to fix the bugs, but i cant, because i don't have access to the source. so i just burned my money.In a perfect world, every user should have access to the source code.

Copyright still applies. There are plenty reasons to see source code. To learn, to fix, to extend, etc. Please don't imply that I'm going to get myself in trouble. They own the copyright to the code. They should show it to their customers. I don't expect them to. In this environment, it wouldn't be a good idea. In an ideal world, it would be a great idea, and if the paradigm shifted a bit it would be a great idea.

I'm all for open source when it makes sense. I'm a software developer myself and use Java for the most part. But I do it for a living you know, using an open source platform doesn't mean that all the tools or products involved will be free and/or open source.

I'm all for open source when it makes sense. I'm a software developer myself and use Java for the most part. But I do it for a living you know, using an open source platform doesn't mean that all the tools or products involved will be free and/or open source.

I agree. I was advocating for a third option, but it's not really relevant

I am not interested in viewing anyone's source code or bug tracking system if I am not a member of their team. I think you got a little hurt from my blunt remarks but really, it's not proper to ask to get inside PMDG'S working parts. It's their project. We are here to enjoy (and pay for) the fruits of their labors.My mistake is defending PMDG when it's none of my business and they do a great job without me.When I mentioned looking at the source code I was kidding. You know, as in humorous.--Jack Hancock

Improper? Not at all. I can go to Microsoft Connect and post/look bug reports affecting systems that are a lot more complex/expensive than the NG. (SQL Server, Visual Studio, Windows Server, etc)If we don't have access to their bug report and tracking system its not because the idea on its own its improper. Lots and lots of companies have public bug tracking platforms. Robert explained the (very valid) reasons why we can't have access. Their development process don't contemplate us looking and posting bugs.

Robert and Ryan,Thank you for the examples, I look forward to experiencing these things. I think the next 18-24 months after release (perhaps up until the release of Flight?) will be NGX-only flying for me. Good thing the NG birds have enough legs for an east coast to Europe Atlantic crossing and west-coast to Hawaii flights.

Robert and Ryan,Thank you for the examples, I look forward to experiencing these things. I think the next 18-24 months after release (perhaps up until the release of Flight?) will be NGX-only flying for me. Good thing the NG birds have enough legs for an east coast to Europe Atlantic crossing and west-coast to Hawaii flights.

Agreed, only I can't toss the Carenado C152. It's a lot of fun. My rare sim time will be split between the two in some form or another.

Perhaps just a ticker for the next plane that shows the number of bugs/ issues reported or that need to be worked on.Just my 2 cents

You have to realize that with respect to the source code stuff, this is effectively what makes PMDG PMDG. How would that be in any way fair if we spent all this time developing all these advanced methods, algorithms etc to produce such a high fidelity simulation and then someone just rips it off and sells the same thing for way less or gives it away free? That's a total perversion of the effort/reward relationship. Vangelis worked his you know what off getting his PhDs, countless hours and money went into his learning how to do what he does when he codes an airfile or an FMC system - to say that the results of his work (or anyone else's on the team) shouldn't benefit him is pretty ridiculous... I'd honestly say it'd be immoral really.I've read several formalized philosophical arguments against patents and copyright and other intellectual property rights and while I agree they make sense on paper and stroke at the libertarian streak in some of us, I just don't think that (like a lot of similar theories in politics and economics) they'd actually work the real world.