Sids and stars

[Fenric 0]

Thanks I had never heard of this, going to download and give it a go. I echo all your concerns regarding the default ATC, i hate those wobbly vectors. You do pretty much what i do, use ATC for take-off, don't change stations and dial again when close.

It is an acquired taste, plus you'll need a good headphone / microphone setup - VoxATC is speech-driven. (It's good that there's a 6-7 day full trial period.)The unofficial support forum here on Avsim is where you can ask questions.My quickstart checklist to get VoxATC running would be:

1. Install and configure.
2. Index scenery and aircraft.
3. Install the gauge(s) into your aircraft. (There are two - the standard VoxATC gauge and the "comms history" display.)
4. Set FSX AI to 0.
5. Run Free Flight in FSX, set up at your origin airport in your aircraft.
6. Load an FSX flight plan into your aircraft. (I activate a route from AivlaSoft's EFB so I don't mess with the FSX Planner. YMMV.)
7. Save the flight. (I generally press ";" to call the Save Flight option, then "l" for a dummy name to save as, then "Enter" to commit the save - that's 3 keystrokes total.)
8. Run the VoxATC gauge and click the 'enable' button on it to start VoxATC.

(Steps 1-4 only need to be done once, naturally)

[deetee 164]

+1 for VoxATC v6 - I love it and haven't used FSATC or RC4 since.It even gives you nice lights on the taxiways to guide to your assigned runway or gate (a bit like progressive Taxi but more discreet). You can also get additional free voices from the VoxAtc site called VoxPop; these aren't bad at all but be warned they use loads of RAM so make sure you have a 64-bit OS and at least 6Gb of RAM.

[bsmfinegan 12]

+1 for VoxATC v6 - I love it and haven't used FSATC or RC4 since.It even gives you nice lights on the taxiways to guide to your assigned runway or gate (a bit like progressive Taxi but more discreet). You can also get additional free voices from the VoxAtc site called VoxPop; these aren't bad at all but be warned they use loads of RAM so make sure you have a 64-bit OS and at least 6Gb of RAM.

I'm currently trying out Voxatc and can see myself buying it. Love the SID/STAR interaction. It would be nice if Voxatc could dynamically assign Sids/Stars by reading wind direction and assigning on that basis.Bryan.

[krazyk 157]

I remember using VoxATC quite some time back, probably when it had just come out, and it wasn't that impressive. However, reviews of the same here now seem to point to the fact that it has become a great replacement for FS ATC. Quick question, off topic but it'd be useless to start another thread for such a simple question, do they still support Flight Simulator 2004 ? A quick look on their site and download area shows that they do not cater to FS9 users any more (or perhaps I did not review their site in more detail).Unless this application is as good as its reviews are, I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking to ProFlight Emulator, even though it demands a tad more work from the users side to get everything sorted for that eventual flight.Cheers,

[Guest jahman]

do they still support Flight Simulator 2004?

Just checked the manual and 32 references found for FSX and none for 2004.Cheers, -jahman.

[deetee 164]

The good news is you get a full-featured try out for 7 days. Don't forget to download the extra voices, it makes so much difference! FYI I also have VoxATC working nicely with FS2Crew; I have the Left-CTRL key as a push-to-talk, and also as the FS2Crew voice control mute key so they do play nicely together.

[krazyk 157]

Just checked the manual and 32 references found for FSX and none for 2004.Cheers, -jahman.

Thanks for the update jahman. Cheers,Karan

[Fenric 0]

It even gives you nice lights on the taxiways to guide to your assigned runway or gate (a bit like progressive Taxi but more discreet).

Much better than the floaty arrows! And you get an active stop bar or red lights at the holding point.To get these ground lights the airport needs a dedicated Ground frequency. IIRC, that's to keep this freature to more fully staffed aiports so as to not appear at bush strips, etc.I'd advocate for a Ground or Tower frequency, but that's me... I also decline to use the utility to remove stock taxi lights because my eyes can make out the size and shade of the VoxATC lights for now. :(

FYI I also have VoxATC working nicely with FS2Crew; I have the Left-CTRL key as a push-to-talk, and also as the FS2Crew voice control mute key so they do play nicely together.

VoxATC also trumps with Multi Crew Experience as well using the same PTT/Mute keys. Either set make a dynamite cockpit combo.

[otterspotter 8]

I've been considering products like RC4 and VoxATC to get around the "imprecise" nature of stock FS ATC, but the main thing that has put me off has been the synthesized voices. Somebody mentioned extra voice download: are those voices any less robotic? For me, it kills the immersion that may be gained from using real-world procedures (this is based on the video demonstration on their website). In contrast, however limited the stock FS ATC may be, they sound much more natural.Also, is voice command the only option for VoxATC or is there a button option for those days you may not feel particularly talkative or have a sore throat?Another question: how do these ATC programs work with all the different AI packages out there (UT2, etc.) and third-party airports (their AFCADs or whatever they're called now), in terms of directing traffic both in the air and on the ground?

[Fenric 0]

I've been considering products like RC4 and VoxATC to get around the "imprecise" nature of stock FS ATC, but the main thing that has put me off has been the synthesized voices. Somebody mentioned extra voice download: are those voices any less robotic? For me, it kills the immersion that may be gained from using real-world procedures (this is based on the video demonstration on their website). In contrast, however limited the stock FS ATC may be, they sound much more natural.Also, is voice command the only option for VoxATC or is there a button option for those days you may not feel particularly talkative or have a sore throat?Another question: how do these ATC programs work with all the different AI packages out there (UT2, etc.) and third-party airports (their AFCADs or whatever they're called now), in terms of directing traffic both in the air and on the ground?

As for Traffic and Airports, know that RC4 doesn't control AI, so that's not a factor. FSX parks AI, guides them, etc. AAMOF if you leave the FSX voice audible when running RC4 you can hear the FSX ATC talking with pilots usually a few moments ahead of any RC4 comms. As for controlling you, RC4 uses the actives that FSX deems necesary and gets you going and coming fine. (It doesn't give you any taxi guidance... which some users find to be acceptable while others bemoan. I can read charts so I generally have an idea of where I need to go.) It also reads your flight plan but (when I use it) never suggested a procedure (SID/DP, STAR, or Approach) (IIRC, if the user selects the option, RC considers a waypoint / navaid within 30nm of the departure airport to be "a departure procedure' (likewise a waypoint / navaid within 30nm of the arrival airport can be considered "a STAR"). Likewise RC 4 isn't aware of available approach procedures so if you'd like to request an ILS approach into Starks Twin Oaks, you can... I have.... :( I've used MyTrafficX for a long time and both addons work well with it. (I've not used UT2, so someone else would have to speak up there, but hearsay seems to agree.) While VoxATC will park airlines in proper areas, it doesn't use airline schedules though. (That's more than troublesome to some.) But it does simulate the proper mix of aircraft that can be found at an airport. Its method of providing taxi guidance (green lights) is pretty neat but I've mentioned that already. I do see some oddball ground traffic jams, but none moreso than with FSX itself.VoxATC is voice controlled only. That was a bummer for me last winter when I came down with a sore throat for a day or so, but I turned up my microphone input and whispered my parts. For me though, one of the big things was to get away from all of the menu-button pressing... though at times that could have its advantage.As to voices... RC 4 uses recorded voices, not computer generated. RC 4 itself comes with a nice selection of voices, but if you want to get into RC'ing, check out the Meatwater voice pack. (Details are in the RC 4 forum here on Avsim.) The only drawbacks to recorded voices are that you can detect some choppiness as phrases are strung together in places, and you might find that a particular callsign or airport name isn't available. So in the RC forum there's lots of requests to "please record [so-and-so]" and most requests seem to be welcomed.Now OTOH, VoxATC uses computer generated voices. The free VoxPop voices don't come close to the quality of other payware SAPI5 voices, and - for me at least - neither have the quality of recorded ones. But my best friend is a Dalek, so what do I know? (And after a few weeks even the VoxPop voices became second nature to me.)Computer voices is where VoxATC has a tremendous advantage - Vox's ATC can call out anything. I've had VoxATC tell me to join an airway at a VOR by name. Want to fly for "Shenanigan Airlines?" VoxATC will greet you by name every step of the way. (Ok, that's a minor plus, but hey.... :( ) Landing at EGLL? You can speak with "Heathrow Director Approach." Flying from KSFO to KJFK and your first enroute point is OAL? Expect to be given a SID with the "Coaldale transition." Is your last waypoint LVZ? Then you'll probably be given a STAR with the "Wilkes-Barre transition." And like I've noted earlier it won't be just you flying these, but you'll hear and see AI aircraft on the same procedures as you.So for me I prefer real world procedures and operations over voice quality. Still, every now and then I fly FSX and then RC just to see what I'm missing.

[raymar 969]

I know pilots contact atc before departure for the departure runway, but when the fmc is being programmed for a star which requires an arrival runway.. how do they know which runway to program in with the star. Or do they wait until they get there approach breefing?

Spencer,SiDs and STARS are very useful in FSX and once you start using them you will see they are simply preplanned short segments of your route. As stated by one of the posters, the specific SID or STAR depends on your direction of flight.The large busy airports have so many choices with cryptic names and it is usually almost impossible to know how to choose the best one at any given time.Programs like Aivlasoft's EFB gives you visual overviews of the total picture with the various choices, you then just click on one that looks kinda correct and activate it. If it turns out not to be you best choice, simply back up and make another choice. If ATC or someone else specifies a named SID or STAR such as a tutorial flight, then you just pick it from the available choices.The SID is many times loaded in the FMC while in the taxi mode. The STAR is usually selected about 100 miles or so from the destination. Wind direction is the main player by controlling the landing runways. If you want to have some personal control you can set the wind speed and direction for your flight using fsx and for those airports with E - W or N - S runways you will usually have your choice in use, thereby using your STAR of choice. If you know the destination runway, then just set the wind to be on your nose for landing then pick the STAR for your arrival quadrant. This is even easier than it sounds.Once you are comfortable with using the FMC you will give it a glance or two, a few clicks and you have added or changed the STAR and cleaned up the legs and route.My advise is not to avoid using them, learn how to enjoy using them.Ray

[Guest bstolle]

I know pilots contact atc before departure for the departure runway, but when the fmc is being programmed for a star which requires an arrival runway.. how do they know which runway to program in with the star. Or do they wait until they get there approach breefing?

Normally you program the FMC before departure with the expected star and runway. That way the total distance, descent path and time enroute is approximately correct.There's of course no way to determine which runway you will actually land on most of the time as the weather, traffic situation etc.. can change within a few minutes.Once you have the latest atis (approximately at the top of descent you) you make the approach briefing for the expected and programmed runway.But quite often it happens that ATC assigns a different runway while you are already on the downwind leg which can lead to a rather hectic reprogramming and rebriefing.E.g. in Toronto 24L/R would be best as it's in the vicinity of our parking position. So if ATC assigns 23 we ask ATC if there's chance for 24L/R and sometimes you do get 'your' runway. Of course the opposite happens as well.Things get interesting when you are surprisingly get the opposite runway and you are suddenly WAY too high and too fast..... Hope that helps

[klamal 283]

With MS ATC, you can stay IFR and just fly the SID/STAR that you want. ATC will yell at you for a while until you get back on a waypoint/route that it thinks you should be on. But, it will not cancel your flight plan. You just have to put up with them constantly nagging you to turn or descend or whatever. At least that's how it was in FS9. I just switched to FSX and have not tried this in there yet. I also have Radar Contact now too so I don't think I will be using default ATC any more. But, give it a try. Worst case they'll just cancel your IFR flight plan and you can continue on VFR.

[otterspotter 8]

Fenric, thanks a bunch for your feedback. Much appreciated.

[WotanUK 289]

With MS ATC, you can stay IFR and just fly the SID/STAR that you want. ATC will yell at you for a while until you get back on a waypoint/route that it thinks you should be on. But, it will not cancel your flight plan. You just have to put up with them constantly nagging you to turn or descend or whatever. At least that's how it was in FS9. I just switched to FSX and have not tried this in there yet. I also have Radar Contact now too so I don't think I will be using default ATC any more. But, give it a try. Worst case they'll just cancel your IFR flight plan and you can continue on VFR.

Why bother, you then have that annoying hand over all the time, the general solution appears to be, change over to departure when requested, but just don't contact them. You can then fly what you like, manually tune ATIS at destination, see which is the active runway, program the SID and transistion (into FMC if applicable) then contact ATC again when tracking the ILS into the runway. You get handed straight over and cleared to land, no fuss no bother!!!I tried VoxATC...didn't know it was voice only...i hate that!