Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Tristan Marchent

RNP Charts

Recommended Posts

Hi All,Im just watching the Just Planes - WestJet 737-600 dvd! Its great!!They were flying into Kelowna and planned to do an RNP Approach into Rwy 34, but unfortunately had to switch runways. I was just wondering if anyone knows where it is possible to see some RNP charts.... Or are these only avaliable from the airlines? I wouldn't mind learning alot more about this and I really hope there is an RNP Tutorial when the 737NGX Comes out! :DThanks and I hope you guys can help!Regards,Tristan

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

it is possible to see some RNP charts.... Or are these only avaliable from the airlines?
Yes, in the US many of those charts are publicly available. Go to airnav.com and look for example at KMEM, KBHM, KSDF, PASC, KPSP (this one particularly interesting!) and KDCA airports and you can find RNP charts for these airports. There should be more.

Share this post


Link to post

Navigraph doesn't offer rnp nav data so we can't use it in the ngx until they do. Kevin Westlake

Share this post


Link to post
Navigraph doesn't offer rnp nav data so we can't use it in the ngx until they do. Kevin Westlake
:( ah BIG Shame!! Was looking forward to a bit of that! Thanks though guys for the help :)

Share this post


Link to post
:( ah BIG Shame!! Was looking forward to a bit of that! Thanks though guys for the help :)
Hi Tristan, I emailed Westjet a few weeks ago on your very subject but they politely rejected my request due to Company policy etc., richard welsh.

Share this post


Link to post
:( ah BIG Shame!! Was looking forward to a bit of that! Thanks though guys for the help :)
I thought you were looking for charts. If you want more info about the RNP in this PMDG product you should read prior statements on the subject from Robert and/or Ryan.

Share this post


Link to post

2 quick (and hopefully not too stupid) questions. I'm refering to the KPSP RNAV (RNP) Y rwy 31L approach. What does "RF required" mean? And also, what is the different between an "X" approach, vs "Y" or "Z"? Is is just an updated approach (ie: Atlanta's ERLIN8 vs ERLIN7) or is it something beyond that?

Share this post


Link to post
What does "RF required" mean?
RF = radius-to-fix - ability of the flight control software to perform constant radius turns around a fix. RF is the key software feature that PMDG would have to implement in their simulator to make it RNP capable.
what is the different between an "X" approach, vs "Y" or "Z"?
These are just designations (names) to distinguish one approach flavor to the same runway from another, flavor Y, Z, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
RF = radius-to-fix - ability of the flight control software to perform constant radius turns around a fix. RF is the key software feature that PMDG would have to implement in their simulator to make it RNP capable.
I guess we'll have to wait for one of the PMDG guys to chime in on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
I guess we'll have to wait for one of the PMDG guys to chime in on this one.
GuysIts pretty simple logic- the less time they have to explain stuff in these forums, is time spent that could be more productive.RSR has stated that will ALL be covered in the manulas that come with the NGX. Furthermoore, its the weekend, and a busy one for sure.Relax, and know that you will have the answer one way or another.

Share this post


Link to post
RF = radius-to-fix - ability of the flight control software to perform constant radius turns around a fix. RF is the key software feature that PMDG would have to implement in their simulator to make it RNP capable.
We've already posted about this in past updates, but RF is *not* what makes an aircraft RNP capable. It's part of it, but a lot of simmers really need to get out of the mindset that RNP = curved approaches and nothing else. RNP is a system/methodology that affects every part of the flight - we have it fully implemented right now aside from the RF stuff, which we're still trying to negotiate data access for. RF will likely come in one of the NGX service packs.You can fly an RNP approach that has straight leg segments in the NGX on day 1 (there's a lot of them like this) - we have fully modeled the RNP/ANP comparisons and internal estimation/error correction stuff, the ANP can change etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Hi All,Im just watching the Just Planes - WestJet 737-600 dvd! Its great!!They were flying into Kelowna and planned to do an RNP Approach into Rwy 34, but unfortunately had to switch runways. I was just wondering if anyone knows where it is possible to see some RNP charts.... Or are these only avaliable from the airlines? I wouldn't mind learning alot more about this and I really hope there is an RNP Tutorial when the 737NGX Comes out! :DThanks and I hope you guys can help!Regards,Tristan
In Canada, some RNP procedures can be gleamed from a copy of the 'Restricted Canada Air Pilot'. A trip to a local charter outfit or something along those lines may allow you to get a old cycle.http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=en&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles\Publications\AeronauticalInfoProducts\Publications\CAP\default.xmlDon't worry, the "restricted" doesn't mean its illegal to have or anything, it's just that the procedures are restricted for operators meeting applicable criteria.

Share this post


Link to post

Here's a document from Naverus. Its a company that was started by two Alaskan Airlines pilots who basically invented RNP approaches. Now they aid other companies in getting RNP approaches approved. Alaska is the only airline that I know of that actually has FAA approval to validate their own approaches. They also have some RNP approach plates for your viewing pleasure into Juneau, Alaska, which coincidentally was the first RNP approach in 1996. Hope this helps.http://www.juneau.org/airport/documents/AppendixJRNVImpacts.pdfErik Otterson

Share this post


Link to post

And here's the RNP for KDCA. This will save a lot of time for aircraft that are RNP capable because of the restricted airspace across the Potomac the approaches into 19 are awful. Especially the LDA over the pentagon. Its interesting to note the RNP requirements at the bottom of the chart. RNP (Required Navigational Performance) must be .11 or better to shoot the approach or basically your navigational accuracy must be within one tenth of a mile, this gets your visibility down to 6000RVR or 1 1/4 sm visibility or with the Approach Lighting System out it goes up to 1 1/2 sm. But Ryan is right its just a curved approach nothing special about it, you would take the same exact route flying the River Visual into 19, just follow the river, this just has waypoints to go by.http://www.jeppesen.com/documents/aviation/notices-alerts/hubwatch/BriefingBullentins/bulletin_jep05-03_RNP.pdfErik Otterson

Share this post


Link to post
Hi All,Im just watching the Just Planes - WestJet 737-600 dvd! Its great!!They were flying into Kelowna and planned to do an RNP Approach into Rwy 34, but unfortunately had to switch runways. I was just wondering if anyone knows where it is possible to see some RNP charts.... Or are these only avaliable from the airlines? I wouldn't mind learning alot more about this and I really hope there is an RNP Tutorial when the 737NGX Comes out! :DThanks and I hope you guys can help!Regards,Tristan
Hi Tristan,I just had a look in the weberm that I've access to and it appears that almost all major US airport has some form of RNAV approach. This can either be RNP or GPS. These have been constructed to avoid noise in build up areas and also to avoid terrain. Many of them are normal straight in approaches, but where the missed approach is curved. Funny thing is the old ILS approach still has lower minima than the RNAV approach in LNAV/VNAV. and you will also see different minimas weather you only fly LNAV or you fly the full LNAV/VNAVHope this helped a little,

Share this post


Link to post
RNP = curved approaches and nothing else.
Well, the curved ones are were the fun is ..... :(

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,I'm sure there are better references out there, but if you read about what RNAV really is, it is easy to see why it is associated with curved flight paths:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_navigationBest regards,Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
RF will likely come in one of the NGX service packs.
This caught my eye. So, there are service packs planned? Why is that?

Share this post


Link to post
This caught my eye. So, there are service packs planned? Why is that?
This might be part of the reason:
We've already posted about this in past updates, but RF is *not* what makes an aircraft RNP capable. It's part of it, but a lot of simmers really need to get out of the mindset that RNP = curved approaches and nothing else. RNP is a system/methodology that affects every part of the flight - we have it fully implemented right now aside from the RF stuff, which we're still trying to negotiate data access for. RF will likely come in one of the NGX service packs.You can fly an RNP approach that has straight leg segments in the NGX on day 1 (there's a lot of them like this) - we have fully modeled the RNP/ANP comparisons and internal estimation/error correction stuff, the ANP can change etc.

Share this post


Link to post

Here's a link to some curvy ones for YMHB Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/sup/s8-h59.pdfI think Qantas and Virgin do them in their 737-800s. I believe they're still under "trial" so the operator needs special approval to use them. I don't think Jetstar is doing them with its A320s yet - I could be wrong. I believe they are planning on doing it, but need to train crews + get software for their a/c.They're starting to be used a lot in Australia (I think at the moment as trials with Qantas/Virgin).Cheers,RudyPS more for other Australian airpots in the Supplements section here:http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/aip.asp?pg=50

Share this post


Link to post
This caught my eye. So, there are service packs planned? Why is that?
For one, it would be ridiculous to say the product won't have bugs - it just won't have bugs that we knew about and didn't fix before release. The other reason is that we plan to add more features in the SPs - that will be the main reason for them.

Share this post


Link to post