Lol, those United pilots are something else lol. "That's NOT what I'm talking about. we got other programming to do" Lol.

I know! It sounds like he wanted to strangle the guy in the tower.

Lol, those United pilots are something else lol. "That's NOT what I'm talking about. we got other programming to do" Lol.

But you know what? I can relate. A lot of controllers think it is just plug in the new runway and go. You have to do that, then the PF goes to the take off page while the PNF goes to the acars take off data page 4. Then the PNF verifies with the PF the Take Off Ref Uplink data is correct. Then we verbally go through some items, review the departure procedure for the new runway, brief new engine out procedure and noise abatement and then repeat the before take off checklist again. So as you can see its not a 10 second fix. And this is why in Canada we love getting the departure runway in the IFR clearance. RARELY does it change after that UNLESS there is a big wind shift or something. In the states I find most of the time they will give you a specific departure runway IF you ask for it.JackColwill

But you know what? I can relate. A lot of controllers think it is just plug in the new runway and go. You have to do that, then the PF goes to the take off page while the PNF goes to the acars take off data page 4. Then the PNF verifies with the PF the Take Off Ref Uplink data is correct. Then we verbally go through some items, review the departure procedure for the new runway, brief new engine out procedure and noise abatement and then repeat the before take off checklist again. So as you can see its not a 10 second fix. And this is why in Canada we love getting the departure runway in the IFR clearance. RARELY does it change after that UNLESS there is a big wind shift or something. In the states I find most of the time they will give you a specific departure runway IF you ask for it.JackColwill

Oh I see now. No wonder he was asking for 3min then said he needed 5min after crossing 28L. Thanks for the short explanation.

Oh I see now. No wonder he was asking for 3min then said he needed 5min after crossing 28L. Thanks for the short explanation.

Yep no probs.JackColwill

Hey guys,I think AirTran uses a super-derated CFM56-7 on their -700s. Continental, I understand, uses CFM56-7B24s as do most other US airlines. AirTran, on the other hand, I *think* uses CFM56-7B22s. Remember, it's all software - every single CFM56-7 slung under every next-gen 737 is mechanically the same, -600 to -900 to the BBJs. Max derate for any airplane anywhere is to something like no more than 70% of total thrust, so since it's factory spec is a 22k engine, the -7B22s can be derated further than the -7B24s. TO2 and 65C Assumed Temp on a CFM56-7B24 will be more thrust than TO2 and 65C Assumed Temp on a -7B22.I'm sure someone super-techy can explain it more clearly, and correct any potential inconsistencies above, but that's my understanding of it.-Tony Fiore(Forum Lurker / General Aviation Dispatcher and Int'l Handler)

...and if they have the upgraded brakes, their stopping distance is probably less allowing for a smaller margin on the end of the runway after V1. So Flaps1 with awesome braking action would leave lots and lots of room for derating. It's also my understanding that the 737NG is almost always climb limited before it's runway limited. So keep that flap setting small and your climb performance will be better and you'll be able to use less thrust for takeoff.-Tony Fiore

...and if they have the upgraded brakes, their stopping distance is probably less allowing for a smaller margin on the end of the runway after V1. So Flaps1 with awesome braking action would leave lots and lots of room for derating. It's also my understanding that the 737NG is almost always climb limited before it's runway limited. So keep that flap setting small and your climb performance will be better and you'll be able to use less thrust for takeoff.-Tony Fiore

Just remember that SWA doesn't derate, they only used reduced thrust take off. Also, SWA never does any reduced climbs, either.

I wonder why. That is HUGE wear and tear on the engines compared to double derate.JackColwill

Just remember that SWA doesn't derate, they only used reduced thrust take off. Also, SWA never does any reduced climbs, either.

I'm gonna ask our guys on the tech team about this - something strikes me as not right about these claims.

I'm gonna ask our guys on the tech team about this - something strikes me as not right about these claims.

I can believe it, they are generally airborne earlier than any other company. Also, from what I see on radar, faster climbing.

what is the difference between deratet and reduced thrust?

I can believe it, they are generally airborne earlier than any other company. Also, from what I see on radar, faster climbing.

I can verify their performance as well. Many times we have to wait an extra mile or two to launch a SWA 737 when following a slower carrier. I've seen many times where we have 15-20 miles in trail with Miami Center and a SWA B737 out climbs a TRS B737/B717 that is 15-20 miles ahead of him.That and SWA takes intersection departures and is still airborne before TRS B737 using full runway.

I think AirTran uses a super-derated CFM56-7 on their -700s. Continental, I understand, uses CFM56-7B24s as do most other US airlines. AirTran, on the other hand, I *think* uses CFM56-7B22s. Remember, it's all software - every single CFM56-7 slung under every next-gen 737 is mechanically the same, -600 to -900 to the BBJs. Max derate for any airplane anywhere is to something like no more than 70% of total thrust, so since it's factory spec is a 22k engine, the -7B22s can be derated further than the -7B24s. TO2 and 65C Assumed Temp on a CFM56-7B24 will be more thrust than TO2 and 65C Assumed Temp on a -7B22.

That would make sense, but according to AirTran's website, they have CFM56-7B26s. See: http://www.airtran.com/aircraft/boeing_737_aircraft_specifications.aspx

When you fly home, discuss with pilot about ngx release date

Ok, got confirmation - SWA does not use preset derates like TO1 or TO2 (assumed temp only) and they do not use climb derates. He's not sure why the policy is there and he's going to try to find out for me.