VIDEO of managing drag during Approach

[willultra99 8]

Hi Jack thanks for the video. When u captured the loc u where going about 165knots is that standard or is that a little slow. Just woundering because i hit the loc around 180knots (in the FS world of course). i dont like to slow much before capturing the loc. as well i see that u used flap 30, is this SOP as well is there any reason why u dont land with flaps 40 or does the vid cut off before u deploy the next flap setting? Just wondering if this is pilots discrestion or if this is SOP Thanks,William Coade

[Highiron 21]

Opps, my bad! I'm mixing up the 600's with the 700's, you are correct. I should have known better, as when I was flying regularly out of YYC the 600's dominated and the 700's with winglets were being phased in. The 800's are new on the block these days. There was suppose to be a retro fit of winglets on the 600's by Boeing, but the carrier rescinded it's option to do so later on. From what I understand, a fine was imposed for this to the air carrier. Thanks for the correction again.

[Houghton11 12]

Highiron... Don't mean to play fleet-monopoly-pub-quiz with ya here but I'm pretty sure WJ ordered/had the -700's delivered long before the -600's. WJA doesn't even operate that many 600's. You may be confusing the -200's with the -600's.... The loud ones were the -200s....hehe...

[Jack_C 1]

Hi Jack thanks for the video. When u captured the loc u where going about 165knots is that standard or is that a little slow. Just woundering because i hit the loc around 180knots (in the FS world of course). i dont like to slow much before capturing the loc. as well i see that u used flap 30, is this SOP as well is there any reason why u dont land with flaps 40 or does the vid cut off before u deploy the next flap setting? Just wondering if this is pilots discrestion or if this is SOP Thanks,William Coade

Hey William. Nope 180 kts is fine too. It doesn't have to be perfect. In fact there are often times Atc wants us to be at 180-200 at the same distance LISDU represents from the airport. But I am used to the plane, know what it can do, and effectively slow it down. My video was just a demo. 180 kts is a nice number too though. I didnt use flaps 10 on the video but flaps 10 is my "ace in the hand" when I dont want to drop the gear so soon. That extra flaps and the remainder of the LEDs makes a difference! As for the landing flaps? Pilot preference. Our SOPs only say flaps 40 on a CAT 2/3 approach. So use what you like. Flaps 40 adds more drag and therefore engines spool up more making it a touch louder and increasing fuel flow but otherwise s perfectly acceptable.

Opps, my bad! I'm mixing up the 600's with the 700's, you are correct. I should have known better, as when I was flying regularly out of YYC the 600's dominated and the 700's with winglets were being phased in. The 800's are new on the block these days. There was suppose to be a retro fit of winglets on the 600's by Boeing, but the carrier rescinded it's option to do so later on. From what I understand, a fine was imposed for this to the air carrier. Thanks for the correction again.

Actually the 800 was the first plane we had at WJ when we first leased from Delta. We aren'yt getting the winglets for the 600. Winglets are actually adverse on shorter stage hauls which is USUALLY what we use the 600 for. And as far as I know we never got penalized for not getting them on the 600. Unless it has changed Boeing wasn't where we were getting our winglets from.

[Houghton11 12]

I thought the first batch of -700's were retro-ed with winglets from Cascade down in YXX correct?

[Buzz313th 0]

I have no doubt that Jack probably knows the 700 like the back of his hand, as he is a pro in that aircraft, but I just had a look at the 737NGFlight Crew Training Manual for all the NG models and it does talk about decel and quotes the level flight decel procedure @ 2 miles 25 seconds from 280kts to 250kts and 3 miles and 35 seconds from 250kts to Flaps Up Maneuvering Speed, but it doesn't differentiate between the 4 models. Considering Jack is a 700 FO, does he also have time in the 800? Are we sure that the different models don't decel roughly at the same rate in level flight? I mean from 35 seconds to 48 seconds is roughly 30% slower... Thats quite a bit. Just for shites and giggles you can reference the FCTM here http://www.captainpilot.com/files/B373%20NG/B737-800%20Flight%20Crew%20Training%20Manual%20(FCTM).pdf The section regarding Decel is located on page 4.18 Thanks for the killer addon... It has got me back into FS after roughly a 2 year break JB

[willultra99 8]

Thanks Jack for the reply. One more thing, the view u have in the cockpit is different from mine. You r more to the right than i am in my VC view. r u using a program like EZDOK for a different view or is it something that i can change within my sim. Thanks,William Coade

[Jack_C 1]

Hey William, yes I bought EZDok the other day.love how you can alter the views and dont have to push A a gazillion times to get back to capt view.Het JB. Yes our pilots fly the 6/7/800 models. We arent restricted to a particular model. The 800 is harder to slow down INITIALLY. once you get to flap speeds of 15 or greater I find the 800 starts to get better because it has higher flap speeds so you can start throwing out flap sooner. That last flap setting from 15 to landing flap on the 600 can get you since the flaps 30 speed is quite a bit lower so you have to be aware of that when flying the 600.

[Buzz313th 0]

Cool, thanks Jack... That would make sense that at higher speeds the heavier tubes take longer to slow in level flight, probably because a smaller AOA means less Induced drag, which would give mass and inertia the upper hand. JB

[StevenHPerry 20]

Cool, thanks Jack... That would make sense that at higher speeds the heavier tubes take longer to slow in level flight, probably because a smaller AOA means less Induced drag, which would give mass and inertia the upper hand. JB

But a wing holding 140kips would need a greater AOA than the same wing at the same speed holding 130kips. No?

[Highiron 21]

Highiron... Don't mean to play fleet-monopoly-pub-quiz with ya here but I'm pretty sure WJ ordered/had the -700's delivered long before the -600's. WJA doesn't even operate that many 600's. You may be confusing the -200's with the -600's.... The loud ones were the -200s....hehe...

Boeing 737-200's started WJ back in the Beddoe, Morgan, Bell, and Hill era. At 42 years age and 15 years in the aviation industry, you can rest assured I know the difference between a 200 and 600 series Boeing. CP Air, was the reason I got started in aviation back in 1989, one of the largest operators of 200 series aircraft next to Pacific Western. Back in 1999 WJ was talking to both Boeing and Airbus about fleet expansion. They looked at the A318 and A319 very seriously but decided against it. The Boeing 717 was also looked at. WJ also briefly considered acquiring some 300"s, 400's, and 500's, but they were too difficult to obtain on the open market, carriers where hanging on to them. In 2000 WJ signed an agreement with Boeing for a mix of 20 125 PAX B737-600 and 142 PAX B737-700, CFM56 powered aircraft for $900 million, including spares. WJ had an option to acquire an additional 30 aircraft prior to 2008. At the same time WJ entered into an agreement with GE Capital Aviation Service (GECAS) for the lease of 10 B737-700's with the option to lease a further 10 more. So it's a chicken or the egg problem. The 600's and 700's were introduced simultaneously. It would be grossly incorrect to state the 700 was delivered long before the 600. Out of YYC, I saw mostly 200's and 600's and on rare occasion a 700. Over time more 700's began to appear and less 600's. I witnessed this for 3 1/2 years, regardless of what info may be posted on the Internet. Winglets were rather unusual to see in Calgary back in 2001 - 2003 so they rather "stood out".

Actually the 800 was the first plane we had at WJ when we first leased from Delta. We aren'yt getting the winglets for the 600. Winglets are actually adverse on shorter stage hauls which is USUALLY what we use the 600 for. And as far as I know we never got penalized for not getting them on the 600. Unless it has changed Boeing wasn't where we were getting our winglets from.

I have an uncle who is a Project Coordination Manager at Boeing. There are a lot of them there so it's by no means way up on the chain of command, but I had heard that Boeing was looking to sell to WJ for confirmed orders and WJ wanted to be woo' d by aircraft manufactures. I had heard that WJ had made an agreement with Boeing to retro fit the 600's with winglets in exchange for better pricing on the 700's, a sort of packaged deal. WJ later decided to not undergo the retro fit and it was for this reason they were penalized. If I'm not mistaken there is a model of a 600 with winglets in the WJ head office building that was provided by Boeing because of the arrangement. Where the conversion would have taken place is of little help info as often Boeing subcontracts to third party companies for aircraft modifications so it leaves little clues as to the original agreement. Since Boeing holds the type certificate of airworthyness, any modifications would have to be conducted through Boeing. So back on the original topic. Rule #1: a stabilized approach = good landing. Rule #2 unstable approach = bad landing. You can't beat the rules.

[jbassue 181]

Amazing your really great!I'd fly with you any day captain ;)

[Houghton11 12]

Did you work for Canadian HighIron. Still working around YYC at all? Check up on Boeing's Delivery site...it says they only delivered the first 737-600 in August 2005 Sorry I wasn't trying to be rude HighIron about the -200's. Sorry it came out that way a bit. We are lucky in YYC to still see them ripping out of North Cariboo's ramp to this day...I'm sure some of the American folks on this forum haven't even seen a -200 flying! K Well ol wikipedia (the most reliable of all sources of course haha) says WJ got thier first -700's in 2001, with the -600's replacing the -200's on the lower yield routes (YXU, YYJ, etc) in 2005. I don't remember seeing many -600's in the early 2000's mind you I was in YLW in those days so I didn't get to see much of the fancy stuff...although I did enjoy Royal Airlines and KFC ripping 727's in there on hot days...

[Jack_C 1]

Ahhhh North Cariboo. My 'ol stomping grounds.

[caines 0]

Great that we have videoes like this! Just go on and film more flight teqniques : ) I have flown the old PMDG for aprox five houndred hours and allready read the AOM for 737 300-900: Learnt that you have to slow down to manage the turns correct. The NGX is very much like the real a/c. You use a bit of time to reduce the speed. Difficult the descent and reduce the speed at the same time. Something to take into considerations when planning speed and height for initial approach. Try to use LVL CHG and 260-270 knots from FL250 and downwards to FL100 and reduce slightly to 250 knots before reaching FL100. Try to start LVL CHG descent a tad before T/D mark at the FMC. Some 737NG pilots told me that the NG is predicting very accurate, but if you have a tad more wind or steep approach than calculated, you will get "drag required" and not be able to descent without using speed brakes. My 5 cents : ) Happy landings and take offs :DI am observer and this instructor gave me really nice 737 NG knowledge under an interview in a documentary about 737 NG made by me. The NGXis becomming very close to the real thing after mine opinion.