"My suggestion would be to take the machine back to a basic state. 1 stick of RAM, no overclocking, defaults in the BIOS. Reformat and install XP and SP1. Install latest chipset drivers, install Microsoft recommended video driver. Install FS9 and try a flight with the default aircraft only - don't install any addons, no FSUIPC, no clouds, no nothing - just the defaults. If you can fly for two hours with this setup then add extra hardware - i.e. RAM an so on, one piece at a time - test for at least two hours after adding each piece. Once all your hardware is back in then move on to the software, again, one a time and test after each install. Remember to keep a log of what you are doing - use System Restore to checkpoint the system before adding software."Sorry qnh. Don't take this personally. I might be the only one here, but this is my opinion.We are completely loosing our head.Do you realize what you are saying?Do you realize how time consuming your suggestion is?And do you realize, considering how much time we waste in front of PC's, what a disaster it would be if this trend starts expanding to other programs?Re-format every time your software shows problems?Do you suppose Microsoft could afford this with, say, their Office Suite?Compared to other products from this same company, Fs9 is niche software and was thrown on the market with serious flaws, having to follow a precise schedule. Many bugs are coming out only after extensive customer use.All of a sudden, just because this monster starts behaving strange, everyone has at least a faulty stick of RAM in their system! C'mon, let's get a grip on this!If Fs9 shows incompatibilities with some hardware combinations, and people reporting CTD's are quite a few, it means that Microsoft should address this problem, and not me having to spend a holyday backing up my stuff, re-formatting my hard drive, re-installing everything and trying this and that over and over again.Or throwing out money on a new stick of RAM just to find out it doesn't make any difference.BTW, if memtest runs through errors after extensive testing, this doesn't mean your software should leave you bare naked in the middle of your desktop after running for a couple of minutes. It means your RAM is able to handle at least that certain amount of hours without encountering errors. And an error that kicks you back to the desktop or re-boots your system with no notice is a damn serious one.The error memtest runs through after extensive testing is not necessary a fatal one!People are experiencing CTD's on clean OS and FS9 installs.My system is not overclocked, BIOS is optimized, EVERYTHING is working and has been working fine. Always.I'm sorry. If I have to decide between OS and Fs9, I have no doubt on which one is going off my HD.The occurencies of CTD's among other people clearly shows the problem is re-conductable to behaviours whithin the sim. If memory fails, it's because it is lead to do so by a faulty routine triggered by the sim.Simmers, don't start throwing your hardware out the window just because Fs9 is not working the way it should!This is a perverse and dangerous trend, where we ALREADY are buying hardware to meet software requirements and not vice-versa, the way it should be!After spending tremendous amounts of money to live our hobby at its best, I (we) must demand functioning software!I don't see why people are defending the sim so hard!Now it's all down to faulty hardware!I'm sorry, I don't accept this.I love the sim, I wish I could use it the way I was hoping to,but this way of thinking (update, upgrade, buy, re-format, uninstall, re-install and so on) is not going to take this solid community anywhere in terms of making our simming experience better, now and in the future.As far as I'm concerned, this CTD topic is a closed one for me.I will keep my CTD's, I will NOT format my hard-disk and re-install Windows, I will not go looking for faulty RAM.And I won't brag anymore, either.Rather, I'll take a break and come back flying later, be it in Spring or in 2006.Cheers,LucaBTW, Jobia's fix hasn't unfortunally worked for me. Although, I think he is definetly looking in the right direction: deep into fs9's data handling routines. I wonder how many sticks of RAM he has changed!;-)

qnh, just curious, why do you recommend putting the sound card in the slot furthest from the agp slot? Thx..billg

>Sorry qnh. Don't take this personally. I might be the only one>here, but this is my opinion.>We are completely loosing our head.>Do you realize what you are saying?>Do you realize how time consuming your suggestion is?>And do you realize, considering how much time we waste in>front of PC's, what a disaster it would be if this trend>starts expanding to other programs?>Re-format every time your software shows problems?>Do you suppose Microsoft could afford this with, say, their>Office Suite?>Compared to other products from this same company, Fs9 is>niche software and was thrown on the market with serious>flaws, having to follow a precise schedule. Many bugs are>coming out only after extensive customer use.>All of a sudden, just because this monster starts behaving>strange, everyone has at least a faulty stick of RAM in their>system! C'mon, let's get a grip on this!>If Fs9 shows incompatibilities with some hardware>combinations, and people reporting CTD's are quite a few, it>means that Microsoft should address this problem, and not me>having to spend a holyday backing up my stuff, re-formatting>my hard drive, re-installing everything and trying this and>that over and over again.>Or throwing out money on a new stick of RAM just to find out>it doesn't make any difference.>BTW, if memtest runs through errors after extensive testing,>this doesn't mean your software should leave you bare naked in>the middle of your desktop after running for a couple of>minutes. It means your RAM is able to handle at least that>certain amount of hours without encountering errors. And an>error that kicks you back to the desktop or re-boots your>system with no notice is a damn serious one.>The error memtest runs through after extensive testing is not>necessary a fatal one!>People are experiencing CTD's on clean OS and FS9 installs.>My system is not overclocked, BIOS is optimized, EVERYTHING is>working and has been working fine. Always.>I'm sorry. If I have to decide between OS and Fs9, I have no>doubt on which one is going off my HD.>The occurencies of CTD's among other people clearly shows the>problem is re-conductable to behaviours whithin the sim. If>memory fails, it's because it is lead to do so by a faulty>routine triggered by the sim.>Simmers, don't start throwing your hardware out the window>just because Fs9 is not working the way it should!>This is a perverse and dangerous trend, where we ALREADY are>buying hardware to meet software requirements and not>vice-versa, the way it should be!>After spending tremendous amounts of money to live our hobby>at its best, I (we) must demand functioning software!>I don't see why people are defending the sim so hard!>Now it's all down to faulty hardware!>I'm sorry, I don't accept this.>I love the sim, I wish I could use it the way I was hoping>to,>but this way of thinking (update, upgrade, buy, re-format,>uninstall, re-install and so on) is not going to take this>solid community anywhere in terms of making our simming>experience better, now and in the future.>As far as I'm concerned, this CTD topic is a closed one for>me.>I will keep my CTD's, I will NOT format my hard-disk and>re-install Windows, I will not go looking for faulty RAM.>And I won't brag anymore, either.>Rather, I'll take a break and come back flying later, be it in>Spring or in 2006.>>Cheers,>>Luca>>BTW, Jobia's fix hasn't unfortunally worked for me. Although,>I think he is definetly looking in the right direction: deep>into fs9's data handling routines. I wonder how many sticks of>RAM he has changed!>;-)I take nothing personally in a internet forum, trust me :-)I wonder whether you should title your posts"I just want to rant on and on and not accept any assistance from anyone" - no offence intended of course, but it will stop people from wasting their time trying to help you.FS9 works as advertised. There appears to be a small minority that are experiencing problems who if they follow sound advice, not only mine but others as well, then they will discover what is causing their particular problem. I have 20+ years in diagnosing problems with computers and related equipment - none of this is new to me. When XP first arrived a lot of machines started experiencing hardware faults - due to the fact that XP utilises the hardware a lot more that previous operating systems. The foundation of XP is Windows 2000/NT, there have been hardware compatibility lists for these operating systems since day one. Do you know why? It is because not all hardware is the same and the combination of different hardware will have different results. I wonder whether FS9, being the first version designed for XP is also pushing the limits of the hardware?Stick your head in the sand if you wish, that's up to you, however, I and many others will go on enjoying FS9 because we took the time to diagnose and solve whatever problem it was that was preventing it from working in the first place.--qnh

>qnh, just curious, why do you recommend putting the sound>card in the slot furthest from the agp slot? Thx..>>billgbillg,This is so the card will not try to share resources with the video card - this can cause really strange problems. Please remember that this is only from my experience.--qnh

qnh, I might give that a try. I've noticed that I was getting some blurry textures that right clicking on the screen would fix. Oddly, the sound also got better at the same time. Maybe a conflict or something similar. Worth a try... :-)thx againbillg

I have not changed anything with my computer since I loaded FS9 just after release--I could run program reasonably well-no CTD's-Haven't flown for a few months--Started flying again after X-mas-got CTD's right away--Live in an area with snow-downloaded current weather-medium dynamic change-download had snow-would get CTD on taxi to runway-tried changing from night to day time on this default flight out of small airport-would get CTD before sim could reload time of day change-Changed weather to user-defined-no precip-few clouds-wind 8knts.-then tried to change from evening to day-got CTD before sim could reload-changed date to 11/27/03-same problem-changed date to 10/30/03-changed from evening to day-flew for 1 hr. no problem-Everything being equal-FS9 has got a problem with winter Textures or Weather or both--have not tried advancing time of year into Spring to see when this CTD problem goes away-I have three friends that have the same problem-all with good mid to high performance PC's-You can bet that this problem well exceeds 5 per cent of FS9 simmers-This problem is endogenous with FS9-all this driver conflict B.S. is just that-Microsoft remains quiet-They must not have tested this product very well given the huge amount of performance problems listed on this board---Dell Pent 4 2ghzWin XP Home-no networks768 DD ramGEforce 4 Ti 68mb

qnh - Bravo! I have about the same experince level as you and am also getting sick of the complainers who would rather rant and ask for the 'quick fix' than take a step by step approach to solving the issue.I have said over and over that it is a small but VOCAL minority who are having problems. FS9 WAS ready for market - it is NOT seriously flawed, period.That said, I also share the frustration for those who are having problems but a slow, methodical approach is the only way to resolve the issue. Along with every "complaint" post are 10 "try this it worked for me" posts. Pretty soon, you can't tell what state the system is in.Just MHO,Vic

Dear qnh,I consider help coming from the forum extremely valuable.You've just had the bad luck of being the 100th person giving me the same suggestions over and over again, as if I hadn't already spent the past years optimizing my own-built PC's.I took the time, and more than that, "to diagnose and solve whatever problem it was that was preventing the sim from working in the first place."As a matter of fact, that's pretty much all I've been doing since I bought the sim.This is not making me one bit happy with microsoft's last masterpiece, and to tell you the truth I'm pretty fed up with this endless tinkering, when no, I repeat NO software in the past 10 years has ever given me such problems. And curiously enough, everytime a problem is solved with the sim, a new one comes out, making it pretty annoying to spend hours re-installing software for the sake of a program that's not doing what it was meant for in the first place.I also think this politic of continuous hardware turn over is of extreme damage to the customers, and in this particular case won't do any good to our future as simmers.Software and hardware industries are well aware of how willing we are to throw away our money on the latest useless super-processor or video-card in order to make our favourite software run THE WAY IT SHOULD. This is the kind of politic that computer technology industry has followed in the past years to grow so wide so fast; to become forcedly necessary.As far as your concept of wasting time trying to help, I reject any kind of help if it's given with that idea in mind.If I do help anyone in the forum everynow and then, it's with my extreme and devoted pleasure.If besides wasting time diagnosing problems you haven't created in the first place (an this IS what I called wasted time), you also have time to fly and enjoy the sim, well, then you are one resourceful and lucky simmer.All the best,Luca

"Everything being equal-FS9 has got a problem with winter Textures or Weather or both--have not tried advancing time of year into Spring to see when this CTD problem goes away-I have three friends that have the same problem-all with good mid to high performance PC's-You can bet that this problem well exceeds 5 per cent of FS9 simmers-This problem is endogenous with FS9-all this driver conflict B.S. is just that-Microsoft remains quiet-They must not have tested this product very well given the huge amount of performance problems listed on this board"Thank you c172.Thank you, 'cause I can't get what you're saying in the heads of those who are having their greatest time with the sim.I can't grasp what kind of absurd conspiracy lies between the fact that everyone is blaming faults on device drivers and RAM sticks, while it is clear for anyone who's undergon painful testing to solve CTD's, that something into FS9's code is rotten.Those who were following the right path, decompiling .bgl files and working on scenery display routines, are momentarily deserting the forum.And your system differs enough from mine to strengthen my opinion that Fs9 was not tested the way it should have been.My computer is ON at least 5 hours a day.It crashes ONLY when I use the sim.The equation shouldn't be to hard to solve, even for those who enjoy re-installing their video drivers five times a day.Believe me, I'd rather be flying than discussing this.Cheers,Luca

Cheers to you-I agree-I like things about FS9-but I don't think I should be or consult a computer consultant to fly this thing--

>I took the time, and more than that, "to diagnose and solve>whatever problem it was that was preventing the sim from>working in the first place.">As a matter of fact, that's pretty much all I've been doing>since I bought the sim.Obviously you have missed something - otherwise you'd be flying.>>This is not making me one bit happy with microsoft's last>masterpiece, and to tell you the truth I'm pretty fed up with>this endless tinkering, when no, I repeat NO software in the>past 10 years has ever given me such problems.Hmmm - ever had to support Microsoft business applications, or Lotus or Wordperfect for that matter?>And curiously>enough, everytime a problem is solved with the sim, a new one>comes out, making it pretty annoying to spend hours>re-installing software for the sake of a program that's not>doing what it was meant for in the first place.That's what the System Restore function is for in XP - that and keeping a log.>I also think this politic of continuous hardware turn over is>of extreme damage to the customers, and in this particular>case won't do any good to our future as simmers.Welcome to the world of computers - as people demand more and more then manufacturers will produce more and more.>Software and hardware industries are well aware of how willing>we are to throw away our money on the latest useless>super-processor or video-card in order to make our favourite>software run THE WAY IT SHOULD. THE WAY IT SHOULD? - mine, and many others, run the way it should - therefore your configuration or hardware must not run THE WAY IT SHOULD.>This is the kind of politic>that computer technology industry has followed in the past>years to grow so wide so fast; to become forcedly necessary.Supply and demand>As far as your concept of wasting time trying to help, I>reject any kind of help if it's given with that idea in mind.I am only trying to help - if only you will listen.>If I do help anyone in the forum everynow and then, it's with>my extreme and devoted pleasure.>If besides wasting time diagnosing problems you haven't>created in the first place I would contend that you have, however unintentionally, created the problem.>(an this IS what I called wasted>time), you also have time to fly and enjoy the sim, well, then>you are one resourceful and lucky simmer.>All I have is experience with which I am attempting to assist.>All the best,>>Luca>And a Happy New Year to you--qnh

>Cheers to you-I agree-I like things about FS9-but I don't>think I should be or consult a computer consultant to fly this>thing--Yes but perhaps you should think about hiring one when you encounter a problem. The same way that you use a mechanic or an electrician or some other tradesperson.--qnh

Hello, ""You can bet that this problem well exceeds 5 per cent of FS9 simmers-'I have been watchings post about this CTD, it is actually less then 5%, many of these CTD where fixed with landclasss files removed, Afcad addons removed, incompatible gauge removed and others video setting fast write disabled.8234 registered users here, let's say 7000 users for Msfs, I have yet to see 50 users about these problems, (Forget all about these first post users)It's the minority, I will conclude a patch will be needed if at least 50% of users have this issue, near 4000 users :)BestEric

Hi Luca, I tried to replicate your issue, but with no sucess, it's appears there is something fs2004 don't like in your system. I never had a single CTD with fs2004 since I have it, I am enjoying it at max with fantastic flight and weather environment, I wish you could have the same experience like me :-hmmm`You can tried to change your video driver DISPLAY.Device. name in the fs9.cfg ,see this post below it can works for you even if this post is no related to CTD: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...d=136178&page=4The ATI one is labeled "ATI Radeon Win2K/XP"The Nvidia one is labeled "NVIDIA Drivers on Win2K/XP"ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

Perhaps-However, PC specs exceeded software recommendations--$50 FS9 has intrinsic performance issues that would have limited popularity if consumer thought a potential $200+ consulting interview may be necessary to make it work during winter as well as spring and summer. When I buy a car or have an electrician put a new breaker panel in-if it doesn't work in winter the car has warranty service or the electrican comes back to make the panel work--FS9 support has only come up with Driver this and Driver that--I have downloaded 4 different NVidia driver sets as well as tried many other tweaks listed on this board-some work-some don't-The main power of these boards would have to be that #1 people who are having similar problems are not alone, #2 To make people aware of product limitations, and #3 if enough people respond to problem products that Microsoft would actually respond with patches,etc. Having said that, maybe Microsoft believes that many simmers may not care if they must fly during certain seasons or with certain weather conditions, or out of certain airports--I do