You Know,Some of the responses in this thread and others about Crashes are just sad.JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST.Face it,MS could really give a rip about our problems.I don't have AFCAD,I don't have any MESH,I don't have UT, The only add-ons I have installed are the FSD Porter, Commander, and the c177. And I removed all of them as well recently. So no water texture changes, no clouds, runway lights, or other changes.I have reinstalled, and left everything default, and have CTD's.Try F70 French Valley to Palm SPrings. Default everything, and it CTD'sI am actually back to flying FLY!II, since even with all its old problems at least it has a support group that won't bash you when you have a problem.Face the reality. The MSFS9 program is flawed and MS don't give a rip about it.You want to see more people experiencing this.Go to MS website, in their community forums, and on virtually EVERY single page of their Newsgroup, MSN Gaming Zone Sim forums, there are 3-4 posts about MSFS2004 Crashing.Trying to say only a handful have the problem becuase you read Avsims forums is nothing short of a Joke. We are but a small precentage of overall users.Here is the link:http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/de...n-us;newsgroups(You need to copy and paste the whole link since it is large)For anyone here to state any percentage is making an assumption that you don't have a clue about. So why make it.Take all your fancy Math, and go to their newsgroups, add up the total number of Simulation Games they manufacture, and then sample the number of MSFS crash posts, and then try your little comparisons. And then go to every single Flightsim web site, and add up every seperate user having all these problems. It will be a lot higher than the number you have here. Or have Avsim start a poll, to see how many of the Users have experienced a Crash To Desktop without adding anything, after their sim was running flawlessly.Just acknowledge that people have these problems, and try to help.I have obserevd more people having this problem than any other major problem in the 4 or so years I have been here.And for the record, I am more than adept at diagnosing system problems, and everything I have tried or read up upon has not worked.The sim doesn't work great for 4 months and then without adding anything all of a sudden go CTD the majority of times I try to fly. Summmer, winter, daytime, no mountains, mountains. Extra, C172, lear45, DC-3, 747....The sim shouldn't CTD after starting a fresh install, after a reformat, a clean registry, and everything else, including going back to an older Geforce GTS pro 64mb card with very old drivers. The Sim shouldn't CTD at all, IMHO. IT's BROKE, and MS don't give a rip. And with no real competition, they won't give a rip.They have a SOLID History of making Code Flawed products ridiculed with problems. I submit MSFS2004, WIndows XP, WInMe, and Win98 as evidence. Atleast they give updates for their Operating Systems, so why people think we are not entitled to fixes is beyond me, unless they: A) Own Stock, or :( have A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.Here are my Current Specs:Athlon 1.2 GHZ512MB RamGainward GeForce 5600 128mbRam Vid Card running 44.71 Drivers.Win XP Pro I WANT MY PATCH...NOW......Regards,Joe(Heads to bunker with tin foil hat and waits for air raid sirens to start)Same comment Cross-posted here:http://pub162.ezboard.com/faboutpoliticsfr...topicID=3.topicNew POLL on Crashes started Here:http://pub162.ezboard.com/faboutpoliticsfr...topicID=4.topichttp://aboutpolitics.net/images/bannerav.gif.About Politics.net - FORUMShttp://pub207.ezboard.com/bpoliticsgivemel...tyorgivemedeath.Contribute to the Richard Harvey Scholarship Fund.http://www.avsim.com/pages/scholarship.shtml

Joe,I understand your anger and realise that when you have a problem that you cannot solve then it is natural to try to blame others. The fact remains that many people run FS9 without problems. Why is it that they have no problems? Is it luck? I doubt it. The only way to solve this problem is to approach it with cool head and methodically - don't expect to find the answer in five minutes. You can scream and carry on as much as you like, but believe me, it will not solve the problem. --qnh

Im so sorry that you guys are having such trouble. gnh you are as cool as the other side of the pillow.I have NEVER had one CTD since day one. Im very careful about what goes into my FS world. You guys do realize that no 'real' SDK's have been released yet, and if you put one addon in, your asking for problems. (mainly freeware, i think some payware guys got advanced copies) designers are flying by the seat of their pants for now... and a lot has changed, a LOT. If you think its the program, then take your disc's to a computer store and tell the salesperson that the only way you buy this system, is if it will run FS2004. have him load it up and come back and fly. (thats how i got my current rig)if it CTD's come back and call me whatever you want.I really do feel for you guys, Im just a bit confused and frankly a little peeved that someone comes here and says things that """I""" find to be absurd.but i wont go so far as to say your WRONG, just that your overlooking something.good luck all joe

Sometime a few days ago, these topics were taking an interesting direction, where people experiencing CTD's were sharing their occurencies of such problem in order to try and nail it down.Then people started hopping in, saying things like "I don't see why this is happening to you, since it's not happening to me", with such an attitude as if they were married to microsoft fot the rest of their lifes, considering customer complaint close to unacceptable.I frankly was not aware of such strong devotion in a forum I thought dedicated to problem solving in the first place.So now it's all down to "my thing works and your doesn't" 1st grade kind of thing.I tell you, we are going nowhere, and getting there fast, too.And may I add that, regardless of CTD's, Fs9 needs to be patched just like is happening with 99% of existing software.Bye to all,Luca

I'm gonna nail this thing down within the next 48 hours. I'm on my way to a LAN meet and will be able to install my copy of FS9 on four different computers, all of them different. None of these folks are interested in any kind of long term commitment to FS9, but they are willing to assist in troubleshooting.I've reformatted and reinstalled OS and FS9 twice in the past three days, and I'm still getting the CTD's with alarming consistency. I've been able to predict within a 10-15 mile radius where and when the sim will CTD. As before, I have NOT ONE SINGLE ADD-ON... my FS9 install is bone stock.

"So now it's all down to "my thing works and your doesn't" 1st grade kind of thing.I tell you, we are going nowhere, and getting there fast, too."Luca I think that unfortunately ,you and some others are missing the point when people post and say "it isn't happening here".Positive and negative feedback both help to isolate the cause of problems.It seems fairly obvious that it(CTDs) aren't happening to most people-possibly they are only bothering a small(probably less than 5% ) number of users.It is difficult to tell I know,but consider for a moment just how many have bought FS9(100,00? 1,000,000? - I don't know ) Certainly a lot more than the few thousand who frequent this forum.Even here ,it's fairly obvious that the problems seem to be experienced only by a very small minority- Why?The whole point is that,as most can apparently run FS9 without problems, what is it that is causing the problems for the unhappy minority.From reading the many many posts on the subject on here and elsewhere, I feel fairly certain that the answer lays with add-ons of one kind or another.It seems that quite a few have fixed their CTD problems by removing certain addons- not neccessarily just scenery addons.The situation seems to be very similar with the "it won't run with decent fps on my system" problem.There is no doubt that some are running very happily on 1Ghz systems whilst others with 3Ghz have real problems.Now I'm not saying that none of this is the fault of the FS9 software- straight answer is that nobody seems to know for certain, but,given the evidence that we have so far I'd be inclined to put my money on causes other than that.One last thing to say- Everyone's expectations of the software differ.One guy may well be quite satisfied with 15 fps and minimal scenery, others may think that 40fps in a raging blizzard with all sorts of addon scenery is below par.It's only by comparing results that these problems will be solved- whether they are caused by MS or by other factors.Good luckDave(waiting for the fallout!!!)

Dave, although I find that most of the things you say make absolutely sense, there is a point you and other happy fs9 users don't seem to get at all. You state:"From reading the many many posts on the subject on here and elsewhere, I feel fairly certain that the answer lays with add-ons of one kind or another.It seems that quite a few have fixed their CTD problems by removing certain addons- not neccessarily just scenery addons."This is in total contradiction with what the previous user declares, among many others I've been reading from, in other forums as well:"I've reformatted and reinstalled OS and FS9 twice in the past three days, and I'm still getting the CTD's with alarming consistency. I've been able to predict within a 10-15 mile radius where and when the sim will CTD. As before, I have NOT ONE SINGLE ADD-ON... my FS9 install is bone stock."This sterile discussion between enthusiasts and people experiencing problems is absolutely pointless. I'm just a bit surprised about the way trouble-free people are defending the sim as if it was their own creation.And let me insist on what I think is an important point: regardless of CTD's, Fs9 needs to be patched just like is happening with 99% of existing software.In conclusion, I really don't want to take this any further.It's getting as time consuming as having to re-format every other day, and is not helping one single bit all those who can't enjoy their flight simulator.I thank everyone for their help and support.Luca

Luca, I feel your pain, I really do. I had an issue after a hardware upgrade with FS2002 that it crashed to desktop after starting a flight, everytime! I tried all kinds of things, reformats, new drivers, took it to the place that had built the rig in the first place. They looked it over and got the same issues with it and could not fix it. I finally on my lasy breathe, talked to the IT at work, he came over looked at it, found a memory conflict with the vid card and something else, and VOILA, I was good to go and never had an issue after.My point is this, I have read this whole thread and you just can't see the other side, all you are seeing is the problem you are having. There have been countless attempts to help and obviously none have worked. Would you just rather we(the users that don't have this issue) not post at all and then it will just be you guys in here screaming at MS?I agree this thing takes more to get right than most games/ sims, I have done my fair share of tweaking and haven't been to happy with it, but it works for me. I have it running on 2 rigs. The reason this has come down to "mine works, yours doesn't" kind of post is because after all the help that has been offered, that is the bottom line. The people that have problems can't see that many don't and the ones that don't can't feel the pain of the ones that do.I fly for 2 VAs and do quite a bit of design, don't know what I would do if the sim up and started crashing on me, but I guess I'll deal with that when it happens, until then, Joe's words are gold, I try to keep a very clean install on the gaming rig, mostly default, my own scenerey and most payware planes with a few high quality freeware ones.All the best!Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VACougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviation[link:www.cgrmthelos.com]Cougar Mountain Helicopters

Thanks Michael for a kind and finally moderate reply.I will come back to the forums the day I'll be able to fly again, hoping to have the occasion of helping someone after my experience.Enjoy your flying.Regards,Luca

Hi, "I am actually back to flying FLY!II, since even with all its old problems at least it has a support group that won't bash you when you have a problem."Really?, All users of Msfs bashing user each others one by one, it's the minority or majority 5% ? :) I hope the minority won't tell you that's it's reflect all 100% Msfs users.I remember like now, FLYII user critisized so BADLY and wrongly all developper of FLY team after the release, ALL Tri developper team guys have deserted FlyII forum since because of this and never get back, (word from their mouth) and probably kill TRI developper team interest to release many many patch without been paid even if there was no fund from the company, Insulting publicly guys game developper team when they interact in forum make worst than insulting users. Only Rich at that's time remain but he actually can't do it alone to fix all, in fact you can see how many patch have been released. It's actually worst bashing your own developper product team of your product.I understand why Microsoft team do not interact in forum! ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

Joe, I can appreciate your frustration but what makes you think that MSFT doesn't care about this problem? It's well known that they don't post here so you can't take their absence as evidence. Plus I do believe they read these forums (as well as email) so I'd be highly surprised if they weren't at least aware of the problem. Having done a fair bit of programming myself I can appreciate how hard a problem like this can be to track down, especially when it's observed "in the wild", as it were, with all sorts of different configs to factor out. Call me an optimist but I choose to believe that *if* MSFT can determine what's causing this they'll at least let us know, even if they can't offer a patch that fixes it.

Where (lat/lon) are you getting the CTD? Maybe some of us can try going there to narrow down what's happening.

I really wonder though - most if not all MS programs including FS have this error reporting routine, are they using it at all to fix any errors?! (Maybe they are just spying on us ;))-Daniel

Hi thereI received my AMD 64 and my Asus K8V Deluxe 3 days ago.In addition I bought 1GB (2*512 MB) of Kingstons HyperX PC3200 DDR RAM.I upgraded from an Athlon XP 2700+ running on an Asus A78NX Nforce 2 motherborad with 1GB Low End PC2700 RAM.In additon I use an ATI Radeon 9800 PRO card and Creative Audigy 2 ZS sound card which I already used in my old configuration.All I can say so far is that the new AMD64 setup DOUBLED my frame rates and the system is rock stable with the default settings - I get now 25+ FPS even at the busiest airports with multiple clould layers, over 100 Project AI packages and ALL sliders maxed.I used my existing XP installation without any re-installations of the OS or FS9Beside your statement in regard if the RAM, I personally think that it is RAM related. I had the same symptoms after I tried to overclock my memory timings in the BIOS.Did you try different (slower) RAM timings in the K8V BIOS or turn the Bus frequency from 400Mhz down to 333Mhz ? Do you have the possibility to try different RAM bars in your system ?In addition, did you follow the instructions in the K8V manual for the single/and or double sided RAM requierements ? Depending on your RAM, different memory slot configurations might be necessary.The AMD64 seems to be very sensitive in regard of the RAM due to the fact the memory controller is on the CPU itself and it is highly recommended to only use RAM that was tested and certified by AMD.

I am bumping this back to the top, so others who participated in this thread can go read this other thread, where you will find the following.DOCUMENTED CTD's by some of the same people who said it was our sytems and not the program itself.They should also be commended for admitting that this is a problem with the program itself.Here is the thread:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=169338&page=Regards,Joehttp://aboutpolitics.net/images/bannerav.gif.About Politics.net - FORUMShttp://pub162.ezboard.com/baboutpolitics.Contribute to the Richard Harvey Scholarship Fund.http://www.avsim.com/pages/scholarship.shtml