Ciao all,well... reading most of the messages about this topic, I see many people did not understand what a SEASONAL CTD is.A Seasonal CTD is not:1- A crash due to Afcad2- A crash due to AI planes3- A crash due to any incompatible gauge4- A crash that happens sometimes5- A crash that displays an error message6- A crash that somebody has and somebody doesn't have7- A crash due to hardware troubles (ie memory problems, drivers incompatibilities, bios and whatever you want)Instead, a seasonal CTD:1- Affects all userSo please stop saying "only 5% of user..." these are bullshits!2- Can be reproduced every time you fly DAYTIME (in a certain season, usually winter) in a specific area3- happens ad any time of the day but not with night textureThis means it is a "texture related trouble". It can't be related to ATC/AI 'cause the traffic is different at each time of day... moreover CTD happens even if AI planes are off...4- It seems to be related to winter/snow-covered textureTexture... season... I think the problems it's inside Landclass5- A quite common case is on the alps, FAR from any airports and without afcads filesSo it's not an afcad problem6- It's not related with clouds, weather or any aircraft you're usingTo make it short:The best way to discover if it's a Seasonal CTD or any other type of Crash is to RELOAD the sim (after a CTD) at the exact location and exact date you've crashed (the best is to use autosave.dll)... if the sim crashes to desktop during scenery loading display (usually between 50 and 70%) that's a seasonal CTD, if not, it's another type of crash.Those other type of crashes could be related to AI, Drivers, Bios, OS... whatever, but it's a problem of FS on that specific configurazion, and can be solved in some way... Seasonal CTD are computer indipendent and can't be fixed by replacing a driver!An examble os seasonal CTD?Just download this landclass scenery:http://www.aliditalia.com/downloads/Italyl...k-versione4.zipinstall the .bgl under scenerybasesceneryRun FSCreate a flight: Location "Bolzano", Date "winter", Time "Day"press "fly now"The sim will crash ad 63%Try "summer"... the sim will not crash...Remove this landclass and retry any date... the sim will not crash...The same landpack will crash near "Boscomantico" and near Zurigh... and only in winterThe default landclass has no crash... on alpsI've heard about real Seasonal CTD related to non default landclass in Scottland, Seattle, ecc...I cannot reproduce any Seasonal CTD with default landclass. Maybe there are, I'd like to know where... if anyone could tell me where I should place myself, I'll be happy to know... (I don't care about fs9.cfg, settings or addon, I just need a location without landclass)If FS also has CTD with default landclass, it's a problem that microsoft MUST fix... if not, the problem it's inside FSLandClass (the program used to create landclasses)... maybe microsoft has changed a bit the format from fs2002, so in winter and fs2004 we got this problem... in this case a patch from microsoft is not required... it's required a patch from FSLandClass creator...See U...

>Ciao all,>>well... reading most of the messages about this topic, I see>many people did not understand what a SEASONAL CTD is.>A Seasonal CTD is not:>1- A crash due to Afcad>2- A crash due to AI planes>3- A crash due to any incompatible gauge>4- A crash that happens sometimes>5- A crash that displays an error message>6- A crash that somebody has and somebody doesn't have>7- A crash due to hardware troubles (ie memory problems,>drivers incompatibilities, bios and whatever you want)>>Instead, a seasonal CTD:>>1- Affects all user>>So please stop saying "only 5% of user..." these are>bullshits!>>2- Can be reproduced every time you fly DAYTIME (in a certain>season, usually winter) in a specific area>3- happens ad any time of the day but not with night texture>>This means it is a "texture related trouble". It can't be>related to ATC/AI 'cause the traffic is different at each time>of day... moreover CTD happens even if AI planes are off...>>4- It seems to be related to winter/snow-covered texture>>Texture... season... I think the problems it's inside>Landclass>>5- A quite common case is on the alps, FAR from any airports>and without afcads files>>So it's not an afcad problem>>6- It's not related with clouds, weather or any aircraft>you're using>>>To make it short:>The best way to discover if it's a Seasonal CTD or any other>type of Crash is to RELOAD the sim (after a CTD) at the exact>location and exact date you've crashed (the best is to use>autosave.dll)... if the sim crashes to desktop during scenery>loading display (usually between 50 and 70%) that's a seasonal>CTD, if not, it's another type of crash.>Those other type of crashes could be related to AI, Drivers,>Bios, OS... whatever, but it's a problem of FS on that>specific configurazion, and can be solved in some way...>Seasonal CTD are computer indipendent and can't be fixed by>replacing a driver!>>An examble os seasonal CTD?>Just download this landclass scenery:>http://www.aliditalia.com/downloads/Italyl...k-versione4.zip>install the .bgl under scenerybasescenery>Run FS>Create a flight: Location "Bolzano", Date "winter", Time>"Day">press "fly now">The sim will crash ad 63%>Try "summer"... the sim will not crash...>Remove this landclass and retry any date... the sim will not>crash...>>The same landpack will crash near "Boscomantico" and near>Zurigh... and only in winter>The default landclass has no crash... on alps>I've heard about real Seasonal CTD related to non default>landclass in Scottland, Seattle, ecc...>I cannot reproduce any Seasonal CTD with default landclass.>Maybe there are, I'd like to know where... if anyone could>tell me where I should place myself, I'll be happy to know...>(I don't care about fs9.cfg, settings or addon, I just need a>location without landclass)>>If FS also has CTD with default landclass, it's a problem that>microsoft MUST fix... if not, the problem it's inside>FSLandClass (the program used to create landclasses)... maybe>microsoft has changed a bit the format from fs2002, so in>winter and fs2004 we got this problem... in this case a patch>from microsoft is not required... it's required a patch from>FSLandClass creator...>>See U...>Sir,your example is a 3rd party add-on. You stated "I cannot reproduce any Seasonal CTD with default landclass"I'm not sure I understand your problem here. Oh and BTW, dispense with the language, it is not necessary.--qnh

Ciao,well, I'm just saying: after many test I'm pretty sure that this annoyng Seasonal CTDs (again, I'm not speaking about any other sort of crash...) are caused by background textures or by an erroneus command inside the landclass.Fs2004 comes with a default landclass. Somebody says there are CTD also with default landclass... BUT I've checked around many critical place and I never got a CTD just with default landclass.BUT, installing 3rd party landclass (such as this "italy landpack") I have really frequent CTD. And not only with the italian one, but for most of 3rd party landclass...So, the problem can be1- just on 3rd party files -> the program to create landpacks (FsLandpack, created for fs2002) needs an update for fs2004. But till that time any 3rd party landclass are dangerous to be used2- the problem is inside FS2004 -> othe only solution is to wait and hope for a M$ patch.Any crash that is not related to seasonal events, can be related to a specific configuration -> not everyone suffer from them, so a patch is not necessary, but it's necessary to solve a specific situation (changing drivers, bios,....)

Arrex,you might be "happy" to know that I tried flying with both Italy Landpack installed and un-installed, among another endless series of combinations (DEFAULT FS9 SITUATION INCLUDED!)I still get CTD's, regardless.Good luck!Luca

Ciao,not so happy about it... anyway... :-)Well, where exactly do you experience these CTDs?

Ciao,I get CTD's if I start a flight from Zurich: in this case the sim crashes at 56% percent of flight loading (under any circumstances).I get CTD's if I take off from LIMF (Torino, Caselle) and usually keep my heading in the 360

Luca, I get CTD's if I start a flight from Zurich: in this case the sim crashes at 56% percent of flight loading (under any circumstances)."It is when fs load the sim and ctd to 56% ?"I get CTD's if I take off from LIMF (Torino, Caselle) and usually keep my heading in the 360

Ciao Luca,no CTD here starting from turin in that dir WITHOUT italy landpack! :-(I've tried Zurigh with or without ItalyLand Pack... no crash in any case... but i think that zurich is beyond landpack limits... anyway staring fron zurich, flying southbound it takes fiew minutes to get CTDs...Are you sure not to have installaed a landclass for Switzerland?

I just tried both cases on two different setups and got no CTD. What video card are you using?

Hi arrex.The landclass by itself does not crash my system, when recreating the Bolzano FLT you suggested... until I added MESH.It is the interaction between our addon landclass and addon mesh that causes the problem in areas which have steep slopes nearby. And it seems to be triggered by winter.I'm attaching a Bolzano Flight for anyone who cares to reproduce the problem. You can get rid of all addons, then addon the landclass, and the flight is fine. Add an Italy (or perhaps Swiss or Alps ) mesh, and the sim will freeze at about 63%.Dick

Ciao,you're right! Maybe the problems are connected: on steep surfaces Fs2004 changes the default texture with a rocky one... in winter with a snowy-rocky one... maybe there's a conflict with some class set by the landclass and mountain rocks... maybe....

Very interesting! You should email MS ([email protected]) and include the necessary flight and add-ons files to recreate the problem. Perhaps then they could get a clue.

Hi arrex.To make the problem worse, sometimes the actual FS location of the conflict can be many kilometers away from the flight itself! It's a terrain problem that occurs at loading.Dick

Ciao,after some other tests I think that meshes can cause problems just because of the steep surfaces... and their replaced textures!With Italy landpack I get a crash with or without meshes here:N 45 31.67E 10 36.61in the middle of Garda Lake... it's surrounded by mountains... also here there can be that problem of snow+rock textures...Do you confirm this crash?

Hi tdragger.I believe the MS design team is aware of the problem... but they are not going to invest time and money to release a patch that allows addons to work!At this time, we need a new terrain SDK and tools from MS that will allow us to create "proper" landclass and mesh files ( assuming our files are not correct ). Will that happen? I don't know.. the recent BGLCOMP sdk was a bit disappointing ( bugs and omissions ).MS does add landclass files in the form of their few photoreal sceneries ( which are actually landclass BGLs ), so a clue may reside there.Dick