Comparisons to RL

[FSMP 95]

. We then let ATC know we're ready, and if we're still with the ground controller, they'll then had us over to tower. Subject to traffic, we'll get clearance for take off, or perhaps to just 'Line up and wait' (In Americanese: Position and Hold).

Simon Amazing post !! Thanks. Your well writtem, vivid descriptions really give the feeling of being in the cockpit with you,

[Big_Les 1]

Hi ARM, I have a question... do RW pilots usually pre set vnav and lnav before takeoff if they have a runway specific SID?

[flyingscampi 2]

This thread is outstanding and should be a sticky. Simon Holderness is a forum hero

[masneoquil 66]

Amaizing, I never learn so much by reading a post. Thank you very much Simon

[WebMaximus 372]

This thread is outstanding and should be a sticky. Simon Holderness is a forum hero

I agree, hope someone with the right credentials will make it sticky!

[WebMaximus 372]

I have 2 questions: Looking through the documentation that comes with the NGX the FMC is programmed before the packs are even mentioned and quite a few other steps as well before you set the PACKS to AUTO or HIGH. Wouldn't you want to use the PACKS rather quickly to make it more comfortable for the PAX? Or maybe you will already be done with the FMC programming before the PAX arrives why it's not a rush with the PACKS? And as a follow-up on the PACKS, when would you normally have them set to AUTO vs HIGH? What is the most common for the 738, to power the a/c while at the stand using the APU or using gnd pwr? I read in another post most airports don't really like when you're powered by the APU at the stand because of the noise?

[Guest]

Don't view the speedbrake as some kind of admission of failure - if you need it, use it. Sure, smooth efficient flying is always better, but go-arounds are less efficient (but still safe), or even worse, unstabilised approaches are downright dangerous.

I thought I was the only one feeling sometimes that way, I always hate to use them. You statement is slightly against my ego but I'll give it a try more often. BTW, classy posts mate, indeed.

[martin-w 3,243]

Keep it up Simon, we are all learning heaps. Invaluable information. Martin Wilby

[ARM505 0]

Thanks Simon, yeah I understand that the routes won't be planned yet, but the general idea will be to go via England, then down through Africa.The plane should be empty apart from the flight crew, and the fuel? and they will fly the max range on that config?

I'm pretty sure it will be via England, but not 100% (although there aren't too many other options I guess!) It will just be crew and possibly (knowing senior people) maybe one or more of their wives, who knows. But it won't be many people at all, normally two Captains and a F/O (or two). I can only assume that they'll try and hop from 'known' (ie can be relied upon to provide fuel/tech support) field to field, using as close to max range (but with suitable alternates)- this can be a problem in Africa. I'll try to find out a little more, no promises though!

[ARM505 0]

Hi ARM, I have a question... do RW pilots usually pre set vnav and lnav before takeoff if they have a runway specific SID?

They definitely do! But.....we don't :( I think I mentioned somewhere amongst the million words I've written that we don't in order to keep the operation as standard as possible between fleets - we can hop from a B737-300 into an -800 in one day, so they've kept the SOP simple. Also, in order to pre-arm VNAV, you need to do a little extra programming, which again they've avoided adding into the SOP's for fleet compatability. This may sound silly (I don't know), but there's a lot to be said for keeping things simple. I'm sure it will be added at some stage, especially when there are more -800's in the company. One other factor for us was that not all of our -800's had a software version that would provide windshear escape guidance once it had switched to VNAV (and that is digging deep into the memory banks, so don't quote me!) - but the point is that there was some technical reason too.

[ARM505 0]

I have 2 questions: Looking through the documentation that comes with the NGX the FMC is programmed before the packs are even mentioned and quite a few other steps as well before you set the PACKS to AUTO or HIGH. Wouldn't you want to use the PACKS rather quickly to make it more comfortable for the PAX? Or maybe you will already be done with the FMC programming before the PAX arrives why it's not a rush with the PACKS? And as a follow-up on the PACKS, when would you normally have them set to AUTO vs HIGH? What is the most common for the 738, to power the a/c while at the stand using the APU or using gnd pwr? I read in another post most airports don't really like when you're powered by the APU at the stand because of the noise?

The packs are one of those 'as needed' items. If you get to an aircraft that's been cooking in the sun for a while, I can promise you that all the crew are going to want those packs on HIGH a.s.a.p., most of all the F/O who will have to sit in a baking cockpit (which receives far more sun that the cabin!) and start flicking switches! The FMC will be the last thing on your mind when it's 30*C+ outside, and a lot more inside! TIA (This is Africa) though. I can imagine it will be the same when it's freezing cold though! Joburg winter mornings can often be 0*C, so we get that too. As regards AUTO vs HIGH, if AUTO isn't giving you what you want in terms of cold air especially, then switch to HIGH! The -800 is much better than the older aircraft with this though - a tired old APU in a -400 or -300 can easily cause a pack trip off on HIGH, or the left wing/body overheat light to come on since the APU has to work really hard. The -800's APU is much better in this regard. It still takes a long time to cool a hot aircraft down though. I think a lot of these things come with living with these machines on a daily basis - you soon learn what will be needed, and doing some things in precise order is only required in certain circumstances. As regards GPU/APU, our company policy is that any turnaround longer than 45 minutes should use a GPU, unless passenger/crew comfort requires air conditioning. We're not quite so advanced with the noise pollution thing, we don't yet consider that on the ground. Edit to add: A quick rundown on the normal actions on entering the cockpit, over and above what may be written in the SOP's/checklist (and this is just my routine - everyone will be a little different I'm sure): I try and get stuff stowed out the way a.s.a.p. My bag goes into it's place, I get the charts I need out, I put my calculator in the window frame next to the little clipboard thing, I take out the flightplan/paperwork which is stowed on my clipboard, I get out my sunglasses (hey, it's bright!) and I adjust my seat out of the way (ie full rear and right position) just so I've got max legroom (I'm quite tall). I'll get the galley power on for the all important urn (for coffee and tea), and make sure that there is bleed air to pressurise the boilers for water. Based on temperature, I'll fire up the packs for hot/cold air. If all of this means firing up the APU, then I'll get that going. This is of course after the cockpit safety checks, although starting the APU will be needed if you're doing it all from cold and dark anyway. You can see that this isn't necessarily according to any checklist - it's just what I need to do.

[WebMaximus 372]

Thanks alot Simon, everything what you say makes sense. Reason I asked is I have been working on a checklist for flying the NGX online including all phases of flight where my main goal has been to only include what you really need to do on every flight since I've found those checklists already available to include many steps that at least I very seldom not to say never perform like testing all the different fire warning systems etc etc. Of course these items are extremly important especially IRL and it's cool that PMDG let us also perform those steps if we want but have to admit regardless how much reality I try to achieve when flying in FS when it comes to those kind of things I'm a bit lazy

[Yitzhak 0]

This deserves a pin!

[ARM505 0]

Here are some shots of today. I've avoided direct linking so I don't clog this thread with tons of photo's. I've left the photos in their original size, but despite that the quality is still pretty terrible, sorry! I couldn't get the pitch attitude during landing with Flaps 40 since we did both with Flaps 30 due to strong winds. It was quite bouncy, so the cellphone camera struggled to get clean shots, sorry about that. During landing with Flaps 30, the bottom of the centre point marking on the PFD sat just resting on the horizon line. ZWO:http://img.photobuck...09-02131923.jpg Just in case we get confused:http://img.photobuck...09-02132044.jpg The following three are the aircraft and panel state as I received it. The APU is running, the packs are switched off (which is often done during crew changes, despite it being 29*C at the time) and the astute observer will note that the A system electrical hydraulic pump is running due to strong and gusty winds. This prevents the control column from flopping around in the cockpit while we work. And protects the family jewels from inadvertent yoke impact (unpleasant) http://img.photobuck...09-02132318.jpghttp://img.photobuck...09-02132331.jpghttp://img.photobuck...09-02132400.jpg PERF INIT page 1:http://img.photobuck...09-02133227.jpg Descent forecast page for the flight from FALA-FALEhttp://img.photobuck...09-02133517.jpg Lined up on RWY 24R at FALA. It's quite a small field for the -800:http://img.photobuck...09-02140146.jpg Again, I apologise for the poor image quality - not terribly educational these pictures, but if you have a microscope you may be able to see switch positions etc. Here we have been cleared direct to TGV (the beacon at FALE) - I've switched from VNAV PATH to VNAV SPEED (seen in the FMA on the right) because I'm not too worried about our precise height when we get there - I know we are going to get vectors to the final approach fix which will allow me some leeway to sort the height out. The calculated path is less than 400' below the aircraft (seen in the nav display on the lower right side). The FMC commanded speed is 280KIAS and the aircraft is descending through 18500' (FL185 actually). Were we to go back to VNAV PATH, the aircraft would dive to recapture the path, and the speed would increase, but in this case only slightly (maybe to about 300KIAS).http://img.photobuck...09-02143704.jpg As it turns out, we saw the field and were able to get a visual approach in - the height worked out perfectly, which is way you pay to keep experienced crew (hey, I don't alway get it 100% though!) for the long term :)

[MarkW 1,494]

Ok, next lot: We're on the departure, climbing out while hand flying the aircraft. The autothrottle is engaged and doing it's thing, having been through N1 prior to 80KIAS, HOLD mode from 80KIAS, and is now in ARM (ie we could move it should we choose) mode on the FMA, and TOGA and LNAV modes are the the pitch and roll modes respectively. FD is annunciated, since we're hand flying. The A/P could be engaged at any time provided we didn't have stick input, if we felt like it, but as I mentioned I like to hand fly (I mean, it's fun right?) until at least 10K', sometimes higher. There's no rules against that thank goodness! The FMC is following the preprogrammed SID laterally, but not vertically yet (we're still in TOGA mode). For our (slightly odd) noise abatement procedures, we will reduce to climb thrust, and begin to accelerate at 1000'AGL - this is done by the PF calling 'Set climb thrust' (the PM presses the N1 button on the MCP and calls the annunciation as always). The A/T will retard the thrust levers to maintain the computed climb N1 (automatically reduced by the FMC depending on the reducing take off N1 setting), and the PF calls 'Set flaps up speed'. The PM sets the flaps up speed in the IAS window based on the flaps up speed on the speed tape. Often there is a change of ATC frequency to the departure controller at this point, just when you're nice and busy. Flaps are retracted on schedule, as called for by the PF. Once the 'Flaps up, no lights' call is made and we are through 3000'AGL, the PM will call for for VNAV. Now the AFDS will command a pitch to accelerate from flaps up speed to whatever the next FMC limit is (often 250KIAS below 10K' if you've accidentally left that entered), and the speed window on the MCP will blank. The after take off checklist can be done here. We will now comply with the FMC programmed SID in the vertical path too, with it's associated speed and altitude restrictions (often just expressed as, for example, 8000A - ie be above 8000' at that point, as per the Jepp plate)

Simon, really enjoying reading this (btw, former SA native from Germiston, now living in Canada). In the highlighted text above, are you saying that the aircraft if flying the lateral path even though the A/P is off or that the FMC is showing the way but you are actually flying the lateral and vertical path manually ? regards, Mark.