Flight project cancelled/on hold

[shivers9 1,174]

Can you point to any one of these posts? Who has ever said FS was a flop? The point remains that the dedicated simmer is not the MS target market.

Well in #39 Tierborn he said maybe 100k only and you keep saying over and over and over we are not the target market. I would say s that by most any gaming marketing standard that spend, I guess in the millions, to produce a product that has a core following of maybe 100K would be a flop sir. It's not my numbers. As I said sir in my post...I will accept them for the sake of this discussion. Perhalps you could post a Microsoft post where they state that we are not the target market.

[Tierborn 191]

OK let's try this from a different direction. In this exchange as well as in many other forums the same reply comes from many folks with a lot of years in this hobby. That is FSX in a small market not worth serving. That holds true for FS9 and back as far as I can remember. I have no knowledge or experience to the contrary. So if we accept this as the truth then that should mean that FSX and all that came before it are complete and utter flops. No interest or customers and not enough sales. It just begs 2 questions. First: After 10 failed attempts over some 25 or so years, why would a major company worth billions be developing the new Flight. Second: If we all believe it is such a failure then why are we all still coming back here day after day for nothing but another failed attempt? We should all be joining the Ford Falcon users club!!

No one said the FS was a flop (in fact its just the opposite, the MSFS franchise has been a overwhelming success). .. Also, you are mixing your points. Whether you like something and whether something is a commercial success, are two different measurements. Lastly, you have to but on your marketing hat to understand this thread.... our little group "flight enthusiasts" are important to the franchise, but we are not the target market. GM might target the Cadillac to 40+ year olds .. but certainly people in all driving age groups will buy the Cadillac..... not the target market but still important. MSFS has sold millions of copies of MSFS ... do you think that our flight enthusiasts community is millions strong?

[shivers9 1,174]

No one said the FS was a flop (in fact its just the opposite, the MSFS franchise has been a overwhelming success). .. Also, you are mixing your points. Whether you like something and whether something is a commercial success, are two different measurements. Lastly, you have to but on your marketing hat to understand this thread.... our little group "flight enthusiasts" are important to the franchise, but we are not the target market. GM might target the Cadillac to 40+ year olds .. but certainly people in all driving age groups will buy the Cadillac..... not the target market but still important.

You are correct and I have no axe to grind. I don't believe that any of these products are flops. I have just been sturring the pot a bit here today. I would like to make this point. Yes, we who are "flight enthusiasts" are in the manority. But we tend to be hard on ourselves and others who share our passion or interest. I also believe that if it were not for our passion then target market or no target market...there would be no flight sim out there at all. We do tend to be the ones who yell the loudest as well as spend the most money. My fear is that even though these guys are right, we run the risk of turning off many future "flight enthusuasts". That would not be good for the future of the hobby. We are adults and as such we do not rule MS or any other company but I be when push comes to shove then they listen to us more than we may think. I would be willing to bet that every developer here has had a discussion something like "We could leave this out of change this but the hard core guys are going to scream!" We don't run your company but you know we are out there. Microsoft does too. We need to encourage folks to become enthusasts and contact MS and other developers with their wishes, not telling them they don't matter.

[Epgd 144]

I can not even imagine that this project was stopped, every day waiting for new information, pictures, and suddenly it has come to an end? do not even want to walk the same as it was with Train Sim II ... NEVER AGAIN brds Martin

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

I can not even imagine that this project was stopped, every day waiting for new information, pictures, and suddenly it has come to an end? do not even want to walk the same as it was with Train Sim II ... NEVER AGAIN brds Martin

It's not stopped. The host has no clue what he's talking about at all. Wait for something more official than some random guy saying he has a secret source.

[mmann 72]

The bottom line is how much credibility do you believe should be given to Ten Minute Taxi? If Microsoft Flight could talk would it be saying "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"?

[Jacoba 56]

Remember Microsoft Train Simulator. On than off then on then finally off. Dan

+1 and the whole time they denied it was ever on the chopping block...

Given that FSX was such a huge cash cow for MS, why would this even be in question?

If that was true, then why did MS kill off ACES? I seem to recall shortly after the news of the demise of MSFS that MS spoke on the record to with either the Seattle Times or the LA Times and said that ACES was part of a planned cut due to the lack of profit... IIRC they said ACES barely broke even the final year. FROM 2009: Microsoft announces 5,000 lays off; Closes ACES its entire Flight Sim Division. http://technologizer.com/2009/01/23/has-microsoft-flight-simulator-been-canceled-after-29-years/

Wrong .... MS has officially said that flight will have something for everyone ... gamers and simmers. Why is this hard for people to accept?

Mainly because of those of us like me who have been in the SIM world since the SubLogic days and have heard it all before from MS and a host of others in this industry, only to have MS break their word, change plans mid stream or just quit altogether.

I'll wait for MS or some one affiliated with them to give the final word.

Then you'll be disappointed... if history is any indicator of future actions MS will simply kill it off quietly, and fire off a press release on a Friday afternoon as they are headed out the door... with little to no comment.

So, actually, is there ONE SINGLE independent confirmation that Flight is on hold?

You probably won't get one, as I said earlier, you'll get a press release AFTER they can canceled the entire thing, that's how MS has done it in the past.

[Jacoba 56]

Guys, we must consider first the economic environment we are currently in. The global economy is hurting and THAT could be driving any decisions MS may or may not have made to kill off or place on hold any future products. Even if MSFS 2004FSX was were spectacular successes, that was back before the Global Economy took a nose dive. THAT could be what MS is looking at, if so it has NOTHING to do with past sales performances, it has EVERYTHING to do with the future economic climate in which they will release this thing and right now all quantitative measures are pointing to things getting worse. I pour over macroeconomic data daily and if anything is driving MS to delay or kill off any project it will be the horrible reams of trends analysis we are seeing literally hourly coming out of every central bank this side of Proxima Centauri... Also, recently in the news... The PC is Dead, IBM and Computing Giant Microsoft Prepare for the Post-PC World... http://www.dailymail...he-PC-dead.html

It's not stopped. The host has no clue what he's talking about at all. Wait for something more official than some random guy saying he has a secret source.

You mean like Wikileaks?

[Chock 17,769]

I can not even imagine that this project was stopped, every day waiting for new information, pictures, and suddenly it has come to an end? do not even want to walk the same as it was with Train Sim II ... NEVER AGAIN

Although ironically, Train Simulator is back this month, well kind of (due to be released on the 23rd): http://www.railsimulator.com/ Check out the video of the rain on the windscreens, impressive stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX5StDRP_EM

Al

[Jacoba 56]

Here is an interesting blurb from the Microsoft Flight Wikipedia Page...

On the September 1st, 2011 issue^[1] of 10-Minute Taxi, an announcement was made that Flight had been put on hold because Microsoft was beginning to question whether or not it would be a profitable venture. The next day, a German flight simulation website circulated a short article stating that this rumor was totally false and that Flight was still proceeding forth as planned (see: "Wrong Message To Microsoft Flight"). As of September 4, 2011, neither Microsoft nor any organizations officially affiliated with it have given confirmation as to the authenticity of this rumor. Another website said Microsoft Flight's release date will be: World in November 2011.

http://en.wikipedia....icrosoft_FlightAnother quote from a Staff member over at Hover Control

Apparently there is a new sheriff in town overseeing game development and the wisdom of launching another sim title and it's profitability is in question. When you have big budget but big return titles like Halo that hit their ROI very quickly versus software like MSFS that hits that ROI over a much longer period, it is easy to see why it's on the chopping block.

http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=1&t=20080

[Jacoba 56]

Just watched the 10 minute taxi video and the guy says he has an "inside confidential source", then goes into what the law will consider verifiable detail from his source... but... if, infact he is lying this would call into question a much more serious issue. Slander/Libel... If he is lying, has no true source, based on what he has said, this is clearly a malicious and false statement that has the potential to hurt MS. Not only financially but also what the law considers a companies fitness and conduct of their business or trade... But the issues he cites are very believable... new blood in the design division calling into question profitability. The economy as a whole and the future of the gaming market... anyone who has any grasp of the current business/financial climate knows all of those things are being discussed at great length in every boardroom and bank in the free world. I dunno, despite his past actions he may well be onto something, if not I'll be the first to say he's playing with legal fire here... you don't start rumors like this for S&G's unless you love spending all your money on lawyers...

[Chock 17,769]

Then again there is also the possibility that it is deliberate misinformation put out by MS in order to get their product talked about, which is another thing companies have been known to do. Not saying that's the case, but it's not an unknown business tactic to concoct a rumour about yourself so that you can later deny it and get some media mileage, a large proportion of the supposed 'leaks' one hears about in the news are of exactly that nature. Al

[Jacoba 56]

Here is something I find interesting from the latest MS Earnings Release FY11 Q4; from their investor relations dept: While they announced record fourth-quarter revenue of $17.37 billion for the quarter ended June 30, 2011, an 8% increase from the same period of the prior year. They break it down over divisions... Here is what caught my eye. Windows and Windows Live Division revenue declined 1% for the fourth quarter and revenue for the full year decreased 2%. According to MS

The new simulator will be Games for Windows – Live-enabled, which will allow users with Live accounts to join multiplayer sessions with Gamertags.

Also: Entertainment & Devices Division revenue grew 30% for the fourth quarter and 45% for the full year, due to the ongoing momentum of the console, Kinect, and Xbox Live. Xbox 360 has been the top-selling game console in the U.S. over the past twelve months. Notice the lion share of its gaming money comes from console, so it would only be wise business decision making to take a long look at any other games you have that are either dual PC/Console or PC only... possibly in favor of going all console, which is clearly where the money is... So, I'm wondering if this is a financial decision to place it on hold while they look at any long term financial impact on the overall Window's Live MS Flight relationship? And also from their financials statement they are about to dive heavily into cloud-based computing... http://www.microsoft...Q4/default.aspx

[mgh 89]

Although ironically, Train Simulator is back this month, well kind of (due to be released on the 23rd): http://www.railsimulator.com/ Check out the video of the rain on the windscreens, impressive stuff: Al

This is not a Microsoft product. It's from a UK firm that's not even sure where it's based - Gullford [sic] Surrey. On the wider point, while no one outside Microsoft knows what's actually happening, companies frequently review their projects and have been known to cancel them at a very late stage. I know of UK company which spent over £1M bidding and negotiating a £100M+ contact only to walk-away the day before it was due to be signed. The final board meeting decided it was too risky,

[Chock 17,769]

This is not a Microsoft product. It's from a UK firm that's not even sure where it's based - Gullford [sic] Surrey.

Yup, never said it was, that's why I wrote 'well kind of' in my post, although the team at Guildford (RS) does have some of the people who made the original MS Train Sim in it so it's kind of the successor to MS TS that has evolved from Railworks, and you can see exactly what mantle they are grabbing for with that MS-esque font usage and a big &@($* EMD F7 locomotive on the cover artwork, F7s were a bit thin on the ground in Guildford railway station last time I was there. Al