I wish Avsim would stop posting information on Perfect Flight releases. Everything these guys release is crap. I bought the 717 and tolerated that because it at least had a framerate friendly VC but let's face it, it's sad... A site like Avsim should keep us up to date on quality additions to the FS Community not someone selling work that should be freeware (I shouldn't say freeware because many freeware projects aren't as bad as Perfect Flight's, Mach2's Concord is a great example)... With many of the great freeware and payware projects out there we could do well not the hear from companies like Perfect Flight unless the project in question stands out and brings something meaningful to the community as a whole (innovative). If someone is interested in their work they could easily go to their website. Since their work is so horribly substandard it would be a great service not to here about them...I know Avsim and many other sites want to support any developer in this hobby but supporting someone that could potentially make a fool out of someone is another matter. They should not be charging for the kind of products their releasing and we as a community shouldn't allow them to have a venue to do so...

All Avsim does is announce things are released. This is simply fyi info. This is totally separate from their in depth reviews which come later on.

I don't think AVSIM should distinguish between "worthy" and "unworthy" developers when announcing new releases. The separation between good and not so good addons should be left to the reviewers, and us, the customers.One thing that I DO want to read on this forum is customer's reports on new releases, BOTH positive and negative. Of course there is a difference between a negative customer review and "bashing" ...Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

Your right this thread might get blocked but I just thought I'd say something... I can't remember Avsim ever bothering to review a Perfect Flight project... :-hmmm

>Your right this thread might get blocked but I just thought>I'd say something... I can't remember Avsim ever bothering to>review a Perfect Flight project... :-hmmm If you can't say something nice...That can be my only guess as to why they don't.

I don't look at it as bothering to review it or not.Why should they? It is up to them what to review or what not to review.You said:"They should not be charging for the kind of products their releasing and we as a community shouldn't allow them to have a venue to do so..."Ahh, good thing you don't represent the whole Community, and you shouldn't use the word WE, since you don't represent me either. As to what the community allows or not. That is up to each individual community member, IMHO. If you don't like what a site does, you have the choice not to go there. Surely, there are other reviews of that product. if you really want to do the community a favor, why don't you search out reviews, and post the links here. Nothing wrong with that, and that will give the consumer a chance to make up their minds.Like it was posted above, I think Avsim does a great job with their releases. It's like this.Company A sends out a Press release.Avsim posts the release.It is always up to the buyer to do the Proper research as to whether they buy the product or not.I think if they didn't post the Press release, then they would be accused of not being objective or being biased.But by posting the release, regardless of the perceived quality, or lack thereof, they have avoided the bias, and thus elevated their site to more respect.Also, feel free to write a review, and submit it, or posta thread of what you like or dislike about the product.For the record, I own NO perfect flight products.Regards,Joe/Begin Edit:Looks like he is posting this same message at another site too.IMHO, it appears their problem is with perfect flight and he is just using ...Insert Site Names Here...., to further his discord./Close Edithttp://aboutpolitics.net/images/bannerav.gif.About Politics.net - FORUMShttp://pub162.ezboard.com/baboutpolitics.Contribute to the Richard Harvey Scholarship Fund.http://www.avsim.com/pages/scholarship.shtml

I will respond to previous posts under Joe's. :)Why in god's green earth would we just lock this thread? You are not taking a shot at us (and even if you were, we do allow that unless it is really over the top), and it hasn't gotten out of hand (yet - behave yourself Joe)...As for posting a news release or not, Joe has it right... Danged if we do and danged if we don't. There are some "press releases" that we don't publish - in fact a lot of them, that you never see. For instance, a PR of a website that has just launched, offering a commercial product that doesn't yet exist, but promised... etc. etc. To us, that is not news. Get a product together, get your website running and then send us the news for publishing...Anyway, it is always a tough call on these kind of things, and remember one thing... one person's trash may be another person's jewels (or vice versa). :)EDIT: also a point to consider... If we stopped posting commercial news (or even freeware news for that matter) of vendors or groups who someone had a gripe with and demanded that we boycott, then we would very quickly stop posting news altogether. :-lol

I found one review of a Perfect Flight product on avsim's review site. Look in the commercial products index.

I apologize if my comment about locking threads was taken out of context. I didn't mean to imply any criticism towards Avsim. I didn't mean anything by the comment, but I could see how it could have been easily misunderstood. I edited it out as it added nothing to the discussion.

Poor judgement call. Buyer be aware. Many people like to know what's going in the sim industry and who released what no matter what quality. It has nothing to do with supporting substandard work or dishonest developers - it is to provide raw information. If you buy things based on the headlines on the Avsim website - you have only yourself to blame.Michael J.

Hey at least AVSIM is not trying to sell it.RegardsDennis

Thanks Tom for clearing things up a bit. I guess your right and my original post was a little harsh. You guys have to report news on these various products no matter who they are so as not to be labled 'biased'.

I'm sorry Joe but you can't get on these forms and give an honest objective review of a product without controversy. People will tare you apart no matter what your views are so I'll leave that to the Avsim camp. As far as 'we' in my comments, I haven't heard one single positive thing about a Perfect Flight's product line from anyone in the community (especially here at Avsim) but myself... I posted awhile back how I liked the fact that PF's 717 has a framerate friendly Virtual Cockpit versus the problems I was getting with the PMDG VC in FS2k4 (before the latest patch). I got ripped a new a-hole (I wasn't a fan of the original 737NG in FS2k4, I didn't see the light until the latest patch. I was a late bloomer concerning my support for PMDG)... Now I hear this kind of feedback from a community who doesn't seem to care for any Perfect Flight product period. Since so many seem to hate their product line why would you want to hear about their latest releases. I can do a search and find plenty complaints every time Perfect Flight releases something. I got tired of the grips that's why I posted this...

Hi, Tom.While I agre with what you say, may I make a suggestion? I've noticed that the bulk of the "Front Page" these days is just a list of these commercial press releases, followed by the 'todays uploads'. Why not put a "New Releases" link on the front page, and thus allow yourselves to give more visibility to other things? I, for example, am much more interested in Avsims - or a users - review of a product than in some press hacks hyperbole . Why not put the reviews 'above the fold' and consign press releases to an inner page?Richard

And they let us criticize it too. Not all sites allow that.David