Is it just me, or does this really remind anyone else of Captain Van Zanten from the KLM Tenerife disaster? Seems eerily similar IMO.Alex.

It is just you. In this case it was said after the aircraft had been given takeoff clearance. Did you miss that part?

Wow, this post is very long but it is definitely worth the time reading.Great job!

Hi Alex, welcome to AVSIM, Not all that often to be honest. Personally I hate the place, the controllers speak a language of their own, ICAO standard RT goes out the window, reading back a clearence is unheard of there, and the shear volumes of traffic make it near impossible to operate there. The Canarsie VOR approach onto 13L/R is hell, particularly if they give you a last minute change from 13L to 13R. You can hear me going around the turn just calling out "Yup-yup-yup-yup-yup-yup-yup" in shear concentration of not screwing it up and being left with a fuel situation. The amount of traffic using each runway mean that once you get your takeoff clearence you have to race onto the runway and get out of there or the tower's gonna cancel your takeoff clearance while you're on the takeoff roll, it's happened a number of times where I've had to do a high speed RTO as the plane coming behind me was doing a G/A due to separation being too tight and he couldn't land on the same runway I was taking off on, I've been told to go around during the flare as the aircraft ahead of me decided to reject their T/O. When they decide to use RW13R/L and 22R/L similtaneously it's close to suicide. When I'm given takeoff clearance, I'm there screaming "GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO!!!!" and bringing up close to full T/O power and not even aligned with the R/W heading, still just turning onto it. That's just NOT safe opperations!!!! The worst of all is when you hear a pilot who first language clearly isn't english being issued with instructions to cross runways that you're taking off on. There was once a case where the pilot of an Air-India had just landed and was told "Hold short of runway till after the Aerlingus jet has taken off" - And me on the takeoff roll already, to which the Air India pilot responded: "Urmm, Cross the runway ahead of the Aerlingus jet" Which obviously resulted in us slamming on our brakes and bringing to the aircraft to a grinding halt though he didn't actually cross in front of us, he saw us coming but that scares the living day-lights out of me. Then the controllers are just plain rude at times. You learn not to request lower speeds on approach and instead just tell them "Shamrock slowing to 160knots", if they have a real problem, they'll let you know...And of course add in the infamous 40 minute taxi and JFK soon becomes my least favourite airport in the world...So all in all Alex, no, I don't fly to JFK if I can help it, mainly BOS and ORD for me, though MCO has the simplest operations but the worst layover.Capt. Rónán O Cadhain.

Rónán, I would like to ask, are there any other airports that have the same kind of traffic "overflow" where you get a similar feel of insecureness (can't find a better word) like JFK? Also having listened to some youtube ATC conversations I came to think if you recognize any of the controllers, not from the videos but from landing there many times or is it a total anonymous feeling every time you get handed off to a new controller? Finally, do you have any good ATC/pilot quotes that you would like to share?Regards, Manfred

Edited February 16, 201214 yr by sandpatch

Rónán, I would like to ask, are there any other airports that have the same kind of traffic "overflow" where you get a similar feel of insecureness (can't find a better word) like JFK? Also having listened to some youtube ATC conversations I came to think if you recognize any of the controllers, not from the videos but from landing there many times or is it a total anonymous feeling every time you get handed off to a new controller? Finally, do you have any good ATC/pilot quotes that you would like to share?Regards, Manfred

Hey there, sorry for the long time to reply.On occasions while flying into KORD I've been told to "Do some S turns" while on approach to the runway to increase spacing, so that's also fairly, urm, interesting? The thing you have to remember about flying in Europe versus flying in the states, is that in Europe, we take standard RT calls quite seriously, we have to. We could fly over 3-4 different regions on a two hour trip where a different language is the mother tongue in each region, Standard RT is vital for us. In the states, every controller speaks English, and is under the impression that every pilot is fluent in English as well, which a lot aren't, or at least they don't speak non-standard English fluently. On the controller front, you definitely get to know them and what they're like, what flexibility they'll give you, and all things like that. Though I don't think it works in reverse where the controllers recognise us pilots from our voices. Particularly from my home base at EIDW I know each controller's voice and what each of them are like. I'll get back to you on some quotes or stories at a later date, I'm a bit busy at the moment...Capt. Rónán O Cadhain.

Hey there, sorry for the long time to reply.On occasions while flying into KORD I've been told to "Do some S turns" while on approach to the runway to increase spacing, so that's also fairly, urm, interesting? The thing you have to remember about flying in Europe versus flying in the states, is that in Europe, we take standard RT calls quite seriously, we have to. We could fly over 3-4 different regions on a two hour trip where a different language is the mother tongue in each region, Standard RT is vital for us. In the states, every controller speaks English, and is under the impression that every pilot is fluent in English as well, which a lot aren't, or at least they don't speak non-standard English fluently. On the controller front, you definitely get to know them and what they're like, what flexibility they'll give you, and all things like that. Though I don't think it works in reverse where the controllers recognise us pilots from our voices. Particularly from my home base at EIDW I know each controller's voice and what each of them are like.I'll get back to you on some quotes or stories at a later date, I'm a bit busy at the moment...Capt. Rónán O Cadhain.

Thx for the answers, no need for the quotes if you are busy. Found a thread with lots of them, but feel free to add :(http://www.airlinepi...lot-quotes.htmlRegards, Manfred

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by sandpatch