Not seeing it, Not feeling it with X-Plane 10 I had my hopes up...

[JasonHarris 96]

I agree with TK that the wording of some posts would certainly help but in a lot of cases it is not necessary. It also seems to me that the guys here understand what is one persons opinion is but choose to ignore that so they can voice another paragraph. I think I can clearly see when people express as their opinion even if they don't specifically say so. The thing I hope that staunch XP supporters take away is that in most of these cases it is only your opinion as well. The audience that XP hopes to attract is a MSFS community and their opinions will be different because of what they are used to. What I have seen a few times, including saying myself is that xplane has some nice stuff but overall there is nothing adding up to make a change compelling. So while the opinions may not match I would think that xplanes large potential audience has different opinions (expectations really) to people staunch XPX users because they have become accustomed to something different. I think LR has to do more to bring them over. I think that expectation thing is really it. There is an expectation in some areas that LR has ignored i.e. plausible scenery. When simple expectations like that are not met then opinions will come out and play.

[Tierborn 191]

That argument has never and will never be a valid approach to a discussion of a flight simulator. Ever.I've been in Level-D sims, FS, AATDs, real aircraft... all of it. One thing I've learned... real world experience will never, ever translate to a 'good judgement' of a sim's flight dynamics. As one pilot put it to me... I may not know what's "right"... but I definitely notice when something's "wrong".As for the OP's post... it's constructive criticism. It points out what they see as strengths and weaknesses. Simply because it is not something the 'XP-fans' want to hear doesn't mean it's not constructive.I suggest that you learn to tone down your responses as they are becoming extremely agressive and as a commercial developer I can assure you that's inappropriate in the AVSIM forums for a commercial developer.Not one single person has posted a lie about X-Plane, and as such it is completely wrong to denegrate them in the manner you are doing.X-Plane is a fine flight simulator. FS is a fine flight simulator. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Neither is truly superior over the other. As one who develops for simulators, I can guarantee that neither is superior. We could go into an extremely detailed and technical discussion as to the why's and wherefor's... but it would make most people collapse from boredom.I keep hearing that XPlane is a 'work in progress'. For $80, it is fairly logical that most customers of FS9/X would expect XPlane to at least meet the same level of product 'completeness' as FS9/X offers 'out of the box'. It does not, and thus you get people posting as such. Microsoft gets ripped in a major way for minor things... the way Laminar Research has been treated in this forum thus far is far, far more polite and considerate by comparison.So, how about you tone your attitude down and show a little bit of appreciation for the fact that people at AVSIM are even interested in XPlane to begin with. I for one am seriously tired of watching the repeated attacks on AVSIM members by yourself and a few others.

solid post ....

[GoranM 3,778]

That argument has never and will never be a valid approach to a discussion of a flight simulator. Ever.

In your opinion.

I've been in Level-D sims, FS, AATDs, real aircraft... all of it. One thing I've learned... real world experience will never, ever translate to a 'good judgement' of a sim's flight dynamics. As one pilot put it to me... I may not know what's "right"... but I definitely notice when something's "wrong".

In your opinion

As for the OP's post... it's constructive criticism. It points out what they see as strengths and weaknesses. Simply because it is not something the 'XP-fans' want to hear doesn't mean it's not constructive.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone said it wasn't. And I hope you weren't insinuating that I thought it wasn't constructive.

I suggest that you learn to tone down your responses as they are becoming extremely agressive and as a commercial developer I can assure you that's inappropriate in the AVSIM forums for a commercial developer.

Please, by all means, show me where I have been aggressive. I would definitely also like to know how you can accurately interpret aggression in any of my posts. I ask questions to get facts. Simple as that. I have, however, seen aggression in other peoples posts and they have never been called out on it. But we can't talk about that, can we?

Not one single person has posted a lie about X-Plane, and as such it is completely wrong to denegrate them in the manner you are doing.

Actually, they have. The best one is "It takes me 10 minutes to calibrate my controller and by the time I'm done, the demo time limit is over." THAT is a 100% blatant, unequivocal lie. So you are wrong with that.

X-Plane is a fine flight simulator. FS is a fine flight simulator. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Neither is truly superior over the other. As one who develops for simulators, I can guarantee that neither is superior. We could go into an extremely detailed and technical discussion as to the why's and wherefor's... but it would make most people collapse from boredom.

You keep saying "XPX is not worth my $80" yet here you say they are both fine flight sims and neither is better than the other. Which is it?

I keep hearing that XPlane is a 'work in progress'. For $80, it is fairly logical that most customers of FS9/X would expect XPlane to at least meet the same level of product 'completeness' as FS9/X offers 'out of the box'. It does not, and thus you get people posting as such. Microsoft gets ripped in a major way for minor things... the way Laminar Research has been treated in this forum thus far is far, far more polite and considerate by comparison.

It's a stable work in progress. There are always new features being added. New enhancements. New optimization of code. Anything to make it more efficient, right? Of course, no one thinks this way. Maybe if FSX was continually being worked on, it wouldn't have the OOM's and CTD's some people are plagued with.

So, how about you tone your attitude down and show a little bit of appreciation for the fact that people at AVSIM are even interested in XPlane to begin with. I for one am seriously tired of watching the repeated attacks on AVSIM members by yourself and a few others.

Excuse me? I respect my elders, Ed, but you're way out of line on this one. I have NEVER shown anger towards anyone. I ask questions for my own information. I have even helped people, on Skype and email get X plane set up. Nothing wrong with that, you say? Well, these people were once harshly critical of X Plane and my posts about x plane. If you take that as aggression, then you need to read my posts a little more between the lines. The attitudes of the FSX users here is far more critical than anything I, or any other X Plane user has posted. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. And saying I should show appreciation to the people that are interested in X Plane? I am appreciative of the ones that don't come in here and shove their opinions of how x plane is an "untamable wild horse and always will be that way" down other peoples throat. I have commended people on their honest, unbiased criticisms of x plane. And of course, no one has attacked any of my posts, have they? No, of course not. Maybe you should re-read your post that I am replying to.

[m_av 0]

....... shove their opinions of how x plane is an "untamable wild horse and always will be that way" down other peoples throat.

A little too drammatic, even for you, wouldn't you say ? Last time I looked, you are as free to post your opinion as I am and as anybody else is. Shoving ? Well !Wouldn't your posts be "shoving" your "opinion down other peoples throat"s ? At 1.24 shoves a day !I couldn't possibly say that, could I ?

[GoranM 3,778]

A little too drammatic, even for you, wouldn't you say ? Last time I looked, you are as free to post your opinion as I am and as anybody else is. Shoving ? Well !Wouldn't your posts be "shoving" your "opinion down other peoples throat"s ? At 1.24 shoves a day !I couldn't possibly say that, could I ?

Of course you could.Just like I can say your criticisms are unfounded, purely subjective and baseless without evidence.

[m_av 0]

I think you are beginning to understand the different words in the English vocabulary that have a charged effect.Better late than never.Thank you for accepting my right to express my opinion, no matter how subjective, biased, etc. it may look to you.

[JSkorna 137]

See m_av, it's still your fault, just now with a different person.

[m_av 0]

See Jim, IIRC, you said somewhere you welcome a good debate. In that sense, I am kinda like you. I like word fights, especially when they are facts and opinions blended nicely to bring out the flavour and hopefully, ultimately the truth.

See m_av, it's still your fault, just now with a different person.

Agreed, I take full responsibility.

[JSkorna 137]

Remember The Motto, m_av:"You can't handle the truth!"

[Cameron XA 272]

See m_av, it's still your fault, just now with a different person.

Here you are:http://www.readingro...rg/article/3479http://www.hishelpin...ading/ways.htmlhttp://www.busyteach...strategies.html

You really should, as it might improve your reading comprehension.

See m_av it's all your fault that others didn't understand you.

See m_av, it's still your fault, just now with a different person.

By far one of the most obnoxious posters I've seen around these forums in my years here. Yikes. How childish can you get at 51 years of age, Mr. Skorna?

[cobrakev1526 6]

replace FSX and bring back the true spirit of flight simulation back to my home Brings back? Are you stating FS2004 or 2002 or 98 had the spirit and if so. Why are you not still using it? Some evolution of a simulator in the past must have had "The spirit"

Sorry by that I meen I can focus on flying and enjoying the sim without the thought in the back of my head that I was going to get a CTD. Constant CTD take away from the spirit of flight for me.

[cobrakev1526 6]

Is it getting hot in here or is it just me. Why do I feel like I'm in some sort of wonky like star trek convention when I'm reading this post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uwjpk9bPsEgJust my opinion but I'll probably get crap for it :)

[slainte13 0]

It's christmas maybe you should all meet in no man's land for a game of football.

[JSkorna 137]

By far one of the most obnoxious posters I've seen around these forums in my years here. Yikes. How childish can you get at 51 years of age, Mr. Skorna?

[h2egc 34]

Well said Cameron!He gives the word (obnoxious) a totally new meaning.