v4.3.3845 is the current version.

 

What is your cruise altitude? I'm not certain if you get PD on every flight. It might be related to altitude.

 

Try a flight with a cruise level of FL350. You should definitely get a PD with that level.

ohh, that was my last cruise level, FL350 !

 

click that ->

 

 

 

JG

If that was the point at which RC instructed you to descend then Otto definitely has comms. If he didn't you would see 3 - PD.

 

What is your route? Does it involve arrival airport in mountainous area? You may need to create a log if you're convinced you have the comms but don't get 3-PD.

 

If you provide the flight plan I'll fly it and see what happens.

no, it wasnt !

 

atc contacted me regarding descent about 20 miles before TOD, the shot shows about 33miles, not shure if otto had comms while the shot was created, but he defenitly didnt has as i got the descent order. The controler than also asked me to switch frequency and had to do it again because i had still the comms, not otto.

 

i never saw a "3 - PD" using this newer rig, but also fly very often using otto.

 

my route was: KATL SPA V266 SBV V20 NUTTS V3 FAK KIAD, FL350, B772 (but it is happening (or better not)  also on other routes).

 

is the "3 - PD" showing if i have comms, before atc instruct me to descent ? (it dosent, it never does)

 

...how to create a log ?

 

 

JG

JG,

 

Your plan doesn't involve airports at altitude so we can remove that as a possibility. You say you never get a 3-PD option but if you have comms then you certainly should.

 

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to create a log and reproduce the problem. Send the log to JD and he will advise. How to create a log is a pinned topic on the RC forum.

hi,

 

Following this with interest!

 

I always was given to understand that if ATC request you to start the descent ,you should do so no matter what the FMC/ND was showing.You may have to descend early for a variety of reasons.!

Hi Norman,

 

There's a bit of give and take in this situation. I forget the reasons why it was implemented but quite often RC wants you down earlier than the ToD point on the CDU. The 'variety of reasons' may exist in the real world but doesn't in the RC one.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you request a PD and it's initially refused you can continue to request one. In testing I think my record was 9 before RC eventually relented. :biggrin:

Your FMC TOD will be calculated too close to your destination if ...

 

... your FMC is not aware of tailwinds/higher than expected tailwinds

... your FMC expects/got programmed with a far-side-approach but you're assigned a near-side-approach

... you can't idle-descend continually but have to level off at intermediate altitudes

 

My overall experience is that RC instructs you down prior to those TODs, but not way too early. It 'feels' realistic to me, helps with the aircraft's energy management and works everywhere but in mountainous areas (that's where the NOTAMS option comes into play).

JG,

 

Please see the attached screenshot. I am flying KATL-KIAD using your plan. I paused FS9 at the point where I was instructed to descend to FL270. I had comms, not Otto. I requested a PD and it was granted. Pilot's discretion to FL270.

 

I don't know what more I can say. FSX won't have a bearing on this nor will the PMDG777. May I suggest you check the manual on this option. I cannot repeat the problem you are experiencing.

 

And just to make one thing clear. You must not ack that instruction if you want a PD. As soon as you do the option is gone.

 

 

As to RC's calculation for TOD, it is to the crossing restriction of 12000 or 11000 feet (depending on estimated arrival entry into the airport pattern) at 40 nm out from destination, not the airport surface altitude. RC uses the aviation rile of three taking your current cruise altitude and the crossing restriction, and distance to go, into consideration for an idle descent.

 

An FMC will calculate an constant descent idle approach to the airport surface taking weather and aircraft parameters into consideration. Unless you place a 40 nm out FIX on your FMC with an altitude restriction on your legs page, the FMC calculated TOD will significantly be different than RC's.

 

Here's a reference from a 737 pilot's site;

http://www.b737.org.uk/rulesofthumb.htm#Speed,_Height,_Distance_conversion the last line in this first section. Also see the section following on approach profile planning.

 

An aviation general rule is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_%28aviation%29

 

Some pilots establish two destination range rings around the destination airport. For the Smiths FMCs used in many Boeing airliners, bring up the fix page. For the fix ident use the ICAO airport code. In the PBD field enter /40 and EXE, and-or /30 and EXE for the 30 nm range ring. The 30 nm range ring is regarded at the airport local traffic area. This is close to RCs speed reduction scheduler for the airport traffic area.

 

Using the 40 nm range ring you can pick a close waypoint to it to create a 40 nm fix to put the crossing restriction into the FMC. If a convenient waypoint is not close to it pre-flight in the plan mode of the FMC you can create a waypoint fix on your flight path as shown on the nav display.

 

I also use the 40 nm range ring monitoring the descent altitude change arcs to insure I am down to the crossing restriction using V/S if I do not have a fix.

 

AFAIK in the U.S. CDA operations vary with location and traffic conditions. RC4 does not emulate CDA to the destination surface with relief from the filed waypoints and altitudes. I find RC's altitude steps to and from the crossing restriction are reasonable close to a constant descent to the crossing restriction and to the airport pattern entry from there.

hi all,

thanks for all the tips and tricks and good support !

i was used to RC`s early descent instructions without using PD as i cant use it, which wasnt a problem for me, but i thought and wonder how it would be in reality, ...is a vnav path descent the common routine where the pilot request the initial descent or is it always first instructed by the controler (while taking wind and approach into account) ? or is it more the vertical speed descent which have a fixed decent rate (controlers may love to instruct that for eyasyer seperation and planing ?), but if traffic allow they give that PD allowing for vnav path... all together with possible crossing restrictions ? it also seams to be regional different, i realy dont know and it is not all to important, but difficult to simulate.

@Ray: you tested that on FS9, the core code for FSX is more or less the same ithink but the interface is different, on the other hand iam pretty shure the FSX version was tested regarding PD. the PD option RC gives me in its possibilitys (if its working for me), is a welcome variation, i create a log while on my next flight then, your time invest in supporting RC is well appreciated, i hope you had at least a little bit fun while flying my boring fp. ^_^

JG

hi all,

 

thanks for all the tips and tricks and good support !

 

i was used to RC`s early descent instructions without using PD as i cant use it, which wasnt a problem for me, but i thought and wonder how it would be in reality, ...is a vnav path descent the common routine where the pilot request the initial descent or is it always first instructed by the controler (while taking wind and approach into account) ? AFAIK, CDAs are performed with little traffic around, so they are not the standard descent, I reckon. or is it more the vertical speed descent which have a fixed decent rate (controlers may love to instruct that for eyasyer seperation and planing ?) I think that's also a question of passenger comfort, VNAV descents can be pretty rugged; with V/S pilots can smoothen the descent , but if traffic allow they give that PD allowing for vnav path... all together with possible crossing restrictions ? it also seams to be regional different, i realy dont know and it is not all to important.

 

@Ray: you tested that on FS9, the core code for FSX is more or less the same ithink but the interface is different, on the other hand iam pretty shure the FSX version was tested regarding PD.

the PD option RC gives me in its possibilitys (if its working for me), is a welcome variation, i create a log while on my next flight then, your time invest in supporting RC is well appreciated, i hope you had at least a little bit fun while flying my boring fp. ^_^

 

Same interface; I've used RC extensively in both FS9 and FSX. PD is there in both sims.

 

JG

JG ( a name would be better :smile: ),

 

I'll answer the second part of your post first.

 

Whether you fly FS9 or FSX it makes no difference to RC. Likewise with the aircraft you fly. All RC sees is your latitude, longitude and altitude. It performs continuous calculations to determine your position relative to waypoints and your arrival airport. Once it decides you need to initiate a descent it will instruct you. If you have comms you will be presented with an option for a pilot's discretion descent. I'm sure you understand that by now.

 

You need to create the log at the start of your flight. It will get very large but once zipped up it will be a reasonable size. I know the PD option works. It was tested extensively before RC4 was released. People have been using RC4 with FSX for years.

 

If you ensure you have comms you will see that option but as I'm not next to you when you fly I don't know how you operate your aircraft and have RC setup. I suspect you might be acking the descent instruction without realising the implications but if I'm wrong I apologise.

 

It wasn't the most interesting of flights but don't worry about that. It made a change to fly in the US again.

 

On your first point I really don't know who initiates the descent or what mode the pilot uses. It's probably down to the instructions he receives from ATC. You can ask elsewhere about that as it's not directly related to your problem.

 

I'll be looking out for the results of your next flight.  :smile: 

Hi Ray,

 

when would be the 1.st possible situation (after takeoff / climb 10k / cruise / center`s initial descent request) getting the "3-PD" menu entry, not using "Otto" at all and if all is running as it should ?

 

...i want to try something, not shure but ithink it could be with removing some FSX text messages in fsx.cfg (brake message in green text line for example and i removed some other too) but using fsuipc multiple text window, whitch is hideable using a keystroke. ive allready disabled FDC livecockpit and FSUIPC`s special text window, but this wasn`t interferring (other things, keyb. related) as long you start FDC after RC.

 

iam pretty shure i did something or used something which let the "3-PD" menue entry disapear. i think its 1.st possible appeareance before the problem was after takeoff somwhere (of course not using "Otto" for comms or let him using the controls).

 

JG

- Comms are with you (not with 'Otto')

- 'PD' option appears with first descent clearance (upon initial descent instruction)

- brake message does not interfere with the FDC/RC window

- FSUIPC text window MUST be visible

- FDC does not interfere with RC

when would be the 1.st possible situation (after takeoff / climb 10k / cruise / center`s initial descent request) getting the "3-PD" menu entry, not using "Otto" at all and if all is running as it should ?

 

You will only see 3-PD once. It's shown when you're at cruise and RC instructs you to descend. It doesn't appear after that. I find I tend to get that descent instruction when the CDU shows me to be around 50nm from ToD.

 

...i want to try something, not shure but ithink it could be with removing some FSX text messages in fsx.cfg (brake message in green text line for example and i removed some other too) but using fsuipc multiple text window, whitch is hideable using a keystroke. ive allready disabled FDC livecockpit and FSUIPC`s special text window, but this wasn`t interferring (other things, keyb. related) as long you start FDC after RC.

 

iam pretty shure i did something or used something which let the "3-PD" menue entry disapear. i think its 1.st possible appeareance before the problem was after takeoff somwhere (of course not using "Otto" for comms or let him using the controls).

 

I don't quite follow what you're saying. If you can see the RC menu with various options then the 3-PD option will become available at the relevant point in your flight. You cannot inhibit that one RC option. Please confirm you see that menu as shown on your screen shot a few messages back.