April 16, 201214 yr Hi Israel ! Could you please check with your tool and tell me if take-off is possible from runway 26 at CYWJ (route CYWJ YVQ MA CYMA) with the 737-600/short field package CYWJ 08/26 3900*100 ft elev 697 ft gravel surface CYMA 06/24 4800*100ft elev 1652 ft gravel surface alternate CYXY altimeter 29.88 OAT 4°C wind 030°/5kts no gust runway hdg 256° PAX 65 cargos 2800 + 3300 fuel load 13800 lbs ZFW 97740 lbs take-off power full flaps position 1 runway condition dry engine bleed on engine & wing anti-ice off with the following data I get the warning message : " you need additional 4199 ft for Take Off" Many thanks
April 16, 201214 yr Author Hi Israel ! Could you please check with your tool and tell me if take-off is possible from runway 26 at CYWJ (route CYWJ YVQ MA CYMA) with the 737-600/short field package CYWJ 08/26 3900*100 ft elev 697 ft gravel surface CYMA 06/24 4800*100ft elev 1652 ft gravel surface alternate CYXY altimeter 29.88 OAT 4°C wind 030°/5kts no gust runway hdg 256° PAX 65 cargos 2800 + 3300 fuel load 13800 lbs ZFW 97740 lbs take-off power full flaps position 1 runway condition dry engine bleed on engine & wing anti-ice off with the following data I get the warning message : " you need additional 4199 ft for Take Off" Many thanks Hi! The problem is that sheet contains only data for B737-800 & -800WL. The performance will not be the same as B737-600. Israel D' Oleo Ochoa
April 17, 201214 yr "Hi! The problem is that sheet contains only data for B737-800 & -800WL. The performance will not be the same as B737-600" Thanks. Are you planning to adapt your tool for the full range of Boeing models ?
April 17, 201214 yr Despite the "you need additional 2628 ft for take off" warning message, I just performed a safe take off from rwy 08 CYZW flying the 800 short field package equipped CYZW rwys 08/26 length 5500 ft elev 2612 ft ZFW 96500 lbs Fuel load 14800 lbs altimeter 29.88 OAT -4°C wind 040°/3kts no gust PAX 19 cargos 800 lbs + 1000 lbs take-off power full flaps position 1 runway condition dry engine bleed on engine & wing anti-ice off my question is : are you sure about the "TORA minimum required for climb limit" as calculated in your tool ?
April 17, 201214 yr Hello: Where is the latest version of this file? Can a link be posted? Thanks Don Don Lillard
April 17, 201214 yr Author Despite the "you need additional 2628 ft for take off" warning message, I just performed a safe take off from rwy 08 CYZW flying the 800 short field package equipped The performance is only for -800 & -800WL at 26K rating; it is not include -800SFP (Short Field Package), 27K rating or any additional configuration. Israel D' Oleo Ochoa
April 17, 201214 yr Jean-Luis: That you managed to takeoff in one piece, on both engines, does not mean that take-off was legal. Takeoff calculations are based on critical engine failure at, or just before, V1. The calculations are made so that you can -safely stop the aircraft if Vef=V1, within ASDA -safely takeoff the aircraft if Vef is just below V1, so that: --you lift off before TORA --you achieve prescribed height (15/35ft depending on regulatory requirements) before TODA --you clear any obstacles present --and you maintained a minimum required climb rate/angle (in %), as required by regulations for EO situations, in every segment of initial climbout. --Peter Fabian
April 17, 201214 yr Author The most accurate calculation are with FPPM charts (this manual was not sent by PMDG). You need consider the following variables: Basic Considerations 1. On Engine Bleed (one pack bleed from each engine) 2. Normal Air Conditioning Operation (two packs at normal flow) 3. Anti-Ice Off Maximum Brake Release Weight is the lesser of: a. Field Length b. Climb c. Obstacle d. Tire speed e. Brake energy f. Structural limit weights Station & weather data required: a. Altimeter setting b. Wind component Take Off Field Limit a. Field runway length available is amount of paved surface which may be used to accelerate to V1 and: stop at the end of the runway or climb to 35 ft (for dry runway) or 15 ft (for wet runway); do not account clearway or stopway (use TORA) b. Use the chart; for wet runway find wet and dry limit weight and use the lower. c. The field length available must be reduced by the TORA, TODA & ASDA adjustment. Take Off Climb Limit Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Obstacle Limit a. Use when an airport analysis is not available. b. Data is not valid when using improved climb technique. c. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. d. Distance mus be reduced by the TORA, TODA & ASDA distance adjustment. Tire Speed Limit a. Analysis for 225 mph tires (195 kts) b. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Brake Energy Limit VMBE a. Check at hot/high airports, operating with tailwinds or improved climb where V1's are involved. b. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Improved Climb Performance a. Use when the maximum brake release weight is limited by climb. b. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. c. Brakes energy limits should be checked. Slush/Standing Water Take Off a. Includes snow, slush, standing water or ice. b. Take Off in slush depths greater than 13 mm are not recommended. c. Operation on runways with slush/standing water depths of more than 6 mm is not recommended at altitudes greater than 8.000 ft. d. The use of assumed temperature method for reduced thrust is not allowed on contaminated runways. e. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Slippery Runway Take Off a. Braking action is reported as good, medium or poor. b. Poor data reflects a runway covered with wet ice; performance is based on a 15 ft screen height at the end of the runway. c. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Take Off Speeds a. Should be calculated where adjustments is required to V1 for clearway, stopway, anti-skid inoperative, thrust reverser inoperative, improved climb, contaminated runway situations, or brake energy limits. b. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Minimum Control Speeds Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Anti-Skid Inoperative a. The field limit weight and V1 must be reduced. b. Anti-Skid inoperative is only allowed on a dry runway. c. Reduce normal dry field limit and obstacle limit weights by 8.500 kg. d. Apply correction to V1. e. Minimum accelerate-stop distance corrected for wind and slope, at least 1.800 m. Thrust Reverser Inoperative a. With wet runway and one reverser inoperative, you should reduce the normal wet runway/obstacle limited weight by 1.050 kg and the V1 associated with the reduce weight by 2 knots. b. Minimum accelerate-stop distance corrected for wind and slope, at least 1.200 m. Take Off %N1 a. Based on normal engine bleed for air conditioning packs on. b. Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Assumed Temperature Reduced Thrust a. Up to 25% take off thrust reduction for operation with assumed temeperature. b. Use of assumed temperature is not allowed with anti-skid inoperative or on runways contaminated with standing water, ice, slush or snow. c. Use of reduced thrust is not recommended if potencial windshear conditions exist. d. Guidance for setting reduced thrust is provided for the flight crew in the Performance Inflight Chapter of the QRH. Stab Trim Setting Use the chart and the appropiate additional configurations. Good day! Hello: Where is the latest version of this file? Can a link be posted? Thanks Don The link is http://www.fileserve.com/file/45jZUMh/Take This is the last version for this file because i will not use anymore the basic manuals submited by PMDG. I'm searching FPPM but for PMDG regulations this information can't be upload here. Good day! "Hi! The problem is that sheet contains only data for B737-800 & -800WL. The performance will not be the same as B737-600" Thanks. Are you planning to adapt your tool for the full range of Boeing models ? I will not adapt the tool for another Boeing models, but if anywhere like to modify the last sheet can do it. I'm using for performance the FPPM manual (there is a manual for each aircraft type, variation and rating) but for PMDG regulations this information can't be upload here. Good day! Israel D' Oleo Ochoa
April 17, 201214 yr "That you managed to takeoff in one piece, on both engines, does not mean that take-off was legal. Takeoff calculations are based on critical engine failure at, or just before, V1. The calculations are made so that you can......" Got it ! you're right Thanks to both of Peter and Israel
April 18, 201214 yr The link posted above will not allow me to download the file as I do not own the file. Disappointment.. Don Don Lillard
April 18, 201214 yr is it normal to have such a big difference = 5060 ft between 2 computed TORAs as follows : Minimum TORA Required for Field Limit Weight (ft) 4114 ft Minimum TORA Required for Climb Limit Weight (ft) 9174 ft am i doing something wrong ?
April 18, 201214 yr Jean-Louis: that does seem a bit off to me... but I can not be sure. I dont have the calculator here, otherwise I would take a look. --Peter Fabian
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