Do the geriatric set have the vote?

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I presume that Microsoft's marketing and business development folk looked at some numbers and decided that FLIGHT, as a free system with downloadable content would be a hit in terms of numbers sold and profitability. OK, I can accept that they probably looked at a specific metric and I assume (and it is a pretty strong assumption) that they looked strongly at the age demographic. That would make sense to do given their presumed targeted market and pure numbers.However, connecting age to flight simulation or "a flight game" was based on what? The number of members of a first person shooter and a presumed age carry over to FLIGHT? What is the median age that they calculated would purchase FLIGHT?We have been in the business of studying our membership and the various demographics of flight simulation enthusiasts for the last 12 years or so. This is our 2011 Demographic Survey and it only shows the age demographic from that survey:

Without going into a lot of statistical mumbo-jumbo - actually, avoiding it like the plague, my simple conclusion is that the majority of folk interested in flight simulation are old farts, like me. Add up the percentages... Over 50% (actually closer to 60%) of the respondents are over the age of 40.You draw your own conclusions... Mine is that someone in MS Marketing and their BD teammate might want to go back and look at their metrics and conclusions.I would like to hear your thoughts in any case.

[ryanbatc 13,025]

I don't think "we" are the main userbase. Only 2100+ people responded. To make a few assumptions: only the hard core users come to the various forums, and around 60% of the hard core users are age forty and over. I'd say the millions of sales from previous FS releases must have been from little Bobby's dad buying FS2002 for him as a Christmas gift...I guess what I'm saying is that users in the various FS forums are not the main userbase of the MSFS franchise, and never have been. We're a tiny minority... probably less than 1% of total MSFS sales in the past ten years.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,402]

Well Tom, their marketing director should be fired. We all know that the community here at AVSIM should NOT be the target market for MS. Even the demographics you have probably only represent a fraction of that age group being that people my age 40+ only use the sim for a few hours at a time and on the weekends, So here at AVSIM what you really have are the hard core users who just happen be in that age group but the reality is that all age groups are represented here because age is not the the reason why they are here.Now, if you've deciphered that....then one must ask why MS even asked AVSIM and the other online FS media outlets to attend and why they would choose you guys for a press release. It never ceases to amaze me how many times one with a college degree can be so wrong almost 99.9% of the time when it comes to the simple stuff like making money and 2+2. You only need 4th grade math to run a business, nothing more, nothing less...lol.Anyways the bigger picture is why they chose NOT to have their cake and eate it too, when it was sitting right out on the table and had the potential draw COD/MW3 type numbers to flight sim.That's my 2 cents..for what that's worth.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jeff Nielsen

[ryanbatc 13,025]

Now, if you've deciphered that....then one must ask why MS even asked AVSIM and the other online FS media outlets to attend and why they would choose you guys for a press release. It never ceases to amaze me how many times one with a college degree can be so wrong almost 99.9% of the time when it comes to the simple stuff like making money and 2+2. You only need 4th grade math to run a business, nothing more, nothing less...lol.

This is what I've been thinking about as well. Perhaps they want avsim, flightsim, SoH, etc to advertise? Or at the very least create a lot of fanfare..

[NoahBryant 26]

If I were MS I would do the exact same thing. Their goal is to make money, not to make "us" happy. It's just business for them. If I were me I would make a sim that had the fidelity of PMDG or LVLD or most of the Carenedao planes then the scenery of ORBX/FSDT with the new functional weather engine that did it all right and the graphics and performance that Flight has...then I would realize my company is bankrupt because I would have to charge $1500 per copy to just break even, given the number of, "us" there actually are. It's a pity but at least we still have what we have.

[n4gix 4,955]

If that's what Microsoft was thinking, then I predict that it will massively backfire on them. All they've really accomplished is to poison the well. MS managed to build up a huge amount of "Goodwill" (in the balance sheet sense) over the years by continuing to follow the path of the original FS franchise despite some stumbles along the way.With the forthcoming release of this complete abomination, all of that "Goodwill" has begun to evaporate like fuel from a tank the ramp monkey forgot to put the cap back on...

[MikeT707 1,181]

Perhaps our friends at ms thought that many of the old timers would die of heart attacks when they released the news, thus skewing the demographics in their favor. Who knows, I could be wrong.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,402]

If that's what Microsoft was thinking, then I predict that it will massively backfire on them. All they've really accomplished is to poison the well. MS managed to build up a huge amount of "Goodwill" (in the balance sheet sense) over the years by continuing to follow the path of the original FS franchise despite some stumbles along the way.With the forthcoming release of this complete abomination, all of that "Goodwill" has begun to evaporate like fuel from a tank the ramp monkey forgot to put the cap back on...

Yeah Bill, even at a 9.99 price point. Not only that they've killed the longevity of the program itself. I could pull just my VATSIM stats and probably extrapolate that I spent probably 3 actual years using the old (LOL) PMDG 737 for FS9....3 + years on one add-on. Anyone can easily see my point.

[NoahBryant 26]

You're absolutely right. I remember so much of the marketing for FSX/ FS9 being how many real pilots were part of the development process. That has now clearly gone by the way side.Surely that's why ACEs was done away with. They were like us, MS is like MS.

[MikeT707 1,181]

If that's what Microsoft was thinking, then I predict that it will massively backfire on them. All they've really accomplished is to poison the well. MS managed to build up a huge amount of "Goodwill" (in the balance sheet sense) over the years by continuing to follow the path of the original FS franchise despite some stumbles along the way.With the forthcoming release of this complete abomination, all of that "Goodwill" has begun to evaporate like fuel from a tank the ramp monkey forgot to put the cap back on...

Very good point Fr. Bill. That goodwill took an even bigger hit for me personally, as I felt kind of strung along these past 18 months since the announcement. All of their communications make me think of a sleazy guy trying to get a woman in bed with him by telling her things that she wants to hear and then dumping her in the morning. I would have preferred a more honest approach. I really do not feel like supporting Microsoft in much of anything. In fact, as an IT consultant, I recently worked on a project where our team was tasked to recommend a particular type of software and a 5 year contract for related support pertaining to an asset management for a large corporation. This was a five million dollar spend and as we evaluated the company offerings, which included Microsoft's product, we felt that Microsoft was not necessarily honest and transparent with the information that they provided. They did not receive our recommendation and lost the bid. We did go with another company that was smaller and worked their collective tails to meet OUR needs.

[Guest jahman]

MS managed to build up a huge amount of "Goodwill" (in the balance sheet sense) over the years by continuing to follow the path of the original FS franchise despite some stumbles along the way.

Maybe Flight is just another stumble?Cheers,- jahman.

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

I don't think "we" are the main userbase. Only 2100+ people responded. To make a few assumptions: only the hard core users come to the various forums, and around 60% of the hard core users are age forty and over. I'd say the millions of sales from previous FS releases must have been from little Bobby's dad buying FS2002 for him as a Christmas gift...

Who will buy Flight's DLC? Little Bobby or his dad? No. Serious flightsim users will. Who comes to this forum? Serious flightsim users both young and old do. Avsim's demographic survey accurately represents the person who will seriously consider "buying" Flight (i.e., buying Flight's DLC). MS Flight embraced a free version for little Bobby and DLC for the people who are really interested. That means this time around we at Avsim and similar sites are not a sideshow, but accurately represent the main user base of potential, paying customers.

[Toys_R_Us 0]

Tom....My experience working in an advanced development section of GM management is that marketing is often not even considered when a new product is developed. Far more often it is political survival. In this case Microsoft fell off the grid with it's failure to keep up with Google (and others) in cloud based systems based on a changing technology (4g and above cell phones and tablets). So the word spreads throughout the managerial heirarchy that you work on what upper management wants, of you will be looking for a new job. Short term profit and market acceptability is not even considered when this bureaucratic condition manifests itself. Everyone just gets in line with the issue of the day, whatever that may be. It may be a good call, or it may not. But in a large bureaucracy, as in most jobs, you do what the boss wants or else. And as often as not, people at that upper level are not in real good touch with the market demand and/or requirements of the specific. A game or "three" for Windows Live on a cloud is all he wants, and all he really knows. Just deliver it fast. "We need cloud based game apps like Android", comes down as a mandate of the bigger picture !!! I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl. It's that bad. Take a look at a thing called the Chevy Volt at 45 grand or more. And the basic battery used in that car has been around in futuristic show cars since about 1957. It just became the issue of the day where gasoline still rules just like it always did. I rest my case.Bob - Las Cruces, NM

Edited January 5, 2012 by Toys_R_Us

[dmaher 0]

The demographics survey may demonstrate the mainsteam users age group. Does it represent where the economical gain is?

What old farts don't have money? Let me tell you.... :) heheI really don't see casual users investing very much in Flight add-ons.If they don't reach the Avsim crowd...How can I put this? ..."Iceberg! Right ahead!" - "Hard Over!"

[Jacoba 56]

Those of you who actually think that PC based flight sims are money makers for MS need to go have a look at one of their quarterly reports, available free via their website under investor relations.They report time and time again that PC gaming sales are falling while Xbox/Xbox Live and console based gaming has skyrocketed, up 45% last year alone...Flight is headed towards that market most certainly because that is where the money is.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jacoba