New Reality

[VOR_Active 4]

Hello fellow simmers,there were nearly 2 shocking days of sadness and disappointment to most of us according to the latest news. As the dust slowly slowly settles down now, and I want to believe I see things a little bit clearer, I come here to discuss with you some thoughts of mine. First off, it seems that we are facing a new reality and approach of how MS will sell this simulation/game. To me there is no problem because that is how marketing is going. Everything is online and we do this anyway already. In the near future, I hardly believe that there will be any CD drives on computers and for sure this is something that we cannot change. Laminar didn't do the change for their XP10 now, but for sure they will follow the same path as MS for their XP11. Now let's talk about the game/simulation. After the latest news, the reaction on the forums was the same as 6 years ago about FSX. Exactly the same! I remember people, including me, were so frustated about everything and parallel to that, there were others saying not to worry because it was only Beta and the final product will look different. Ok, the final product released and what we got? the same as the Beta and we had all the world installed. Was that enough? of course not! Northern europe looked like Sahara. Scenery was only an example not to mention the endless time of tweaking. Now, after 6 years, FSX is my resource of my flying excitement with all the addons I payed to make it look a simulator because FSX to me IS a simulator.Don't you think with MS Flight is the same as FSX in the past? people writing that Flight is an arcade game. Where have you seen this? on the contrary the MS announcement is saying: Representation of the regions, specific weather patters, foliage and terrain and flight physics. I let that last because flight physics and arcade doen't suit together.As for simulating the whole globe, I prefer to have a solid, concrete limited area at first with everything working properly, than all the world but with the bugs and the known tweaks from the past. Then, slowly expanding with addons to other countries, regions, continets you name it. I dont see any problem with that, We do it now.Last, my ONLY worry is what kind of addon developers we will get. Will be the known serious dedicated developers we all know, or some with a platform game experience.Next week obviously we will know more and, if I remember well, Tom in an early post said that he has to say ALOT about this product. So lets see. Lets be positive and give Flight a chance as we gave to FSX. After all, this is our beloved hobby and it is worth.Thank you

[Marith 2]

Last, my ONLY worry is what kind of addon developers we will get. Will be the known serious dedicated developers we all know, or some with a platform game experience.

From what is being said around different sites we will not be getting any 3rd party developers - not one. There is no SDK and there will be no option for freeware add-ons or tweaking done by the community. The only developers for add-ons will be the internal Microsoft Flight team - all 50 of them.This is what is upsetting me the most as it's the wonderful add-ons by 3rd party developers and the FlightSim community which have made FSX what it is today. We won't have any of that with MS Flight :(. Enjoy your new reality. Edited January 5, 2012 by Marith

[Egbert Drenth 258]

From what is being said around different sites we will not be getting any 3rd party developers - not one. There is no SDK and there will be no option for freeware add-ons or tweaking done by the community. The only developers for add-ons will be the internal Microsoft Flight team - all 50 of them.

If that is really the case, I and probably 90% of the current Flight Simulator community won't get Flight.I'm more then happy to use FS9 for many years to come and transfer to another sim (XP10/XP11, Aerosoft, whatever) if they meet my requirements.Extendability, 3rd party add-ons, online Flying/ATC is for me a must.If a new sim can't provide this (and most likely Flight is one of them) I leave them alone.I'm a bit surprised by the extremely hefty responses in this forum.Yes, I'm too disappointed but apparently MS targets on a different audience. So be it.There will be other sims and FS9/FSX still provide a lot of enjoyment.

[Mountain Man 142]

The new reality is that we should all start supporting Laminar Research and X-Plane because they still care about the hardcore enthusiast market.

[Jacoba 56]

MS shot itself in the foot with this community when it decided to close out the add on devs on this project.A few months back when all the dust, fur, blood and spit began to fly and the place began to fill up with smoke... it was crystal clear to many of us that MS had either shut down add on development to FLIGHT or worse... some of us did have small inside tracks. And while those we were talking to were true to their NDA, they still told us alot in the way they talked, looked and generally just displayed disgust over it all...Developers will stick with FSX for now as they know the hardcore simmers who buy their wares will stick with FSX too.Until so other viable candidate comes along, be it P3D, XP10 or so yet unnamed, unannounced project.

[mikea76 184]

From what is being said around different sites we will not be getting any 3rd party developers - not one. There is no SDK and there will be no option for freeware add-ons or tweaking done by the community. The only developers for add-ons will be the internal Microsoft Flight team - all 50 of them.This is what is upsetting me the most as it's the wonderful add-ons by 3rd party developers and the FlightSim community which have made FSX what it is today. We won't have any of that with MS Flight :(. Enjoy your new reality.

Another horrible thing about MS pilotwings is that once this project proves to be a failure MS will pull the plug and then NOTHING will be able to be developed for it since there is no SDK Edited January 5, 2012 by mikea76

[bonchie 2,305]

The new reality is that we should all start supporting Laminar Research and X-Plane because they still care about the hardcore enthusiast market.

If Laminar cared about anything more then his own personal desires and what he feels is important he'd of not made a lot of the design choices in XP10.

[mmann 72]

If Laminar cared about anything more then his own personal desires and what he feels is important he'd of not made a lot of the design choices in XP10.

+ a billionIt's his way or the highway, that attitude really gets my back up! I'll stick to FSX thank you very much.

[woweezowee 10]

as if you haven't learned enough about microsofts "attitude" now. As a matter of fact what you see in XP10 is mostly based on the wishes of what the X-Plane community (yes, not the msfs community) wanted to see improved and/or added. Blame us, not Austin.And yes, I agree that the current Beta versions are "not there yet".

Edited January 5, 2012 by woweezowee

[Jayskits 0]

MS shot itself in the foot with this community when it decided to close out the add on devs on this project.

Correction: It happened a lot earlier than that. MS shot itself in the foot when it released FSX and it wasn't a significant advancement over FS9

[bonchie 2,305]

as if you haven't learned enough about microsofts "attitude" now. As a matter of fact what you see in XP10 is mostly based on the wishes of what the X-Plane community (yes, not the msfs community) wanted to see improved and/or added.

Yes, I'm sure most of the XP community wanted no airport buildings outside of KSEA, wanted limited crap AI that appears to be unexpandable, wanted no seasonal textures, no water classes, no land class, no landmarks outside the space needle, a plausible world that looks the same everywhere and renders cities horrendously, sketchy ATC, etc.Maybe that is what they wanted? But it's why so many you see on this forum have no interest in XP10 which is the greater point.We could care less what MS's attitude is. FSX is done and the numerous high quality add on companies do cater to us and do have the right attitude to keep the hobby going. That's not even discussing Prepar3d. Edited January 5, 2012 by bonchie

[Blaze 102]

Developers will stick with FSX for now as they know the hardcore simmers who buy their wares will stick with FSX too.Until so other viable candidate comes along, be it P3D, XP10 or so yet unnamed, unannounced project.

+1Just add "Consumers", "Flight Simulator Aficionados" etc. to the the start of your sentence. "Developers" will no doubt support the platform they feel holds their target market's future. Orbx has made their stance clear with Prepar3D and while I like the fact that there is some backward compatibility with the add-ons I already own it's the commercial nature of LM that scares me. They are inviting the consumer market to participate but only a fool would believe that it's the reason they purchased the source code from MS. XP also has promise and may might see a surge now but the constantly evolving code paired with Austin's "My way or the highway" leadership style has hobbled it's growth. Perhaps with Aerosoft getting on board with them this will change.A lot of people keep talking about the future of flight simulation and IMO it's already upon us; it is and will continue to be FSX for the foreseeable future.I predict 95% of Simmers who frequent Avsim will do the same as me and just sit and wait for the path to become clear and enjoy FSX in the mean time.

[woweezowee 10]

Yes, I'm sure most of the XP community wanted no airport buildings outside of KSEA

we HAVE airport buildings. I personally have 6000+ airports populated. We have compatability of add-ons from version 8 to 10. However we did not have a useful AI and ATC at all, etc.pp., and with most of the stuff you write at least a start is made. As I said: I agree that the current Beta versions are "not there yet".

[mmann 72]

I predict 95% of Simmers who frequent Avsim will do the same as me and just sit and wait for the path to become clear and enjoy FSX in the mean time.

I am certainly part of this group. X-Plane is of no use to me, I can't legally use Prepar3d, so that leaves FSX.

[GHarrall 494]

FSX with addons still looks better than XP10 anyway!Why cant you use P3D 'legally'?The $10 per month developer subscription service is open to anyone, as is the $499 licence if you are willing to pay it.If you are concerned about not being a 'real' developer, simply make an AFCAD style file for an airport or something.Honestly, I dont understand all this 'legal' talk about using P3D in the comfort of your own home......................