Helios Airways Boeing 737 Plane Crash

[OmniAtlas 93]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QSqHn8TFjY

Chilling. In the 737-800 is there still a pressurization manual override setting? Edited January 25, 2012 by OmniAtlas

[Superpilotv2 2]

I can´t see anything.

[sheepfu 3]

Yes, there is a manual override. There are three settings, AUTO, ALTN, MAN. In Manual mode you control the position of the outlet valves to maintain cabin pressure. Page 30 of FCOMv2 shows the location.

Edited January 25, 2012 by sheepfu

[WebMaximus 372]

A very sad crash (aren't they all...) :sad:In this case the a/c had reported pressurization problems and during the check for any potential leaks the a/c technicians on the ground changed the pressurization knob from it's normal Auto position to Manual and then forgot to return it to Auto and then also the pilots didn't notice it was still set to Manual so when they climbed through 10K it wasn't long before both they and the rest of the crew including the passengers went unconscious while the a/c continued it's flight on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed.Let me tell you after this accident I'm always looking one extra time on that knob before takeoff...

[738 73]

Saw this on aircrash investigations...and the answer is yes, it didnt get checked it after the plane underwent some maintenance so everyone aboard suffered from hypoxia before the plane ran out of fuel and crashed.

[OmniAtlas 93]

Yes, there is a manual override. There are three settings, AUTO, ALTN, MAN. In Manual mode you control the position of the outlet valves to maintain cabin pressure. Page 30 of FCOMv2 shows the location.

Scary how the failure to recognise the correct position of that one switch can lead to an eventual 'Ghost' plane.

Saw this on aircrash investigations...and the answer is yes, it didnt get checked it after the plane underwent some maintenance so everyone aboard suffered from hypoxia before the plane ran out of fuel and crashed.

How much of a responsibility is this switch to the engineer vs the pilot? It seems like it could be easily overlooked.

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

How much of a responsibility is this switch to the engineer vs the pilot? It seems like it could be easily overlooked.

I'm not a real pilot nor engineer, but from what I heard, it was the engineers job to put the switch back to AUTO, probably because he's supposed to leave the airplane exactly how he found it regarding switches position and that stuff. But the pilots are also guilty because of their failure to recognize and take corrective actions to prevent the accident. The co-pilot, which is responsible for checking the pressurization panel, didn't notice the switch was in the wrong position and the MANUAL alert light was on and didn't realized the plane was not pressurizing as they climbed. Both pilots also failed to recognize the pressurization alarm. They confused it with a Takeoff Configuration warning. So, from my point of view, everybody is guilty, especially the pilots (I have to say I hate when pilots are guilty of an accident, probably because I want to become one) because of their failure to prevent the situation and to recognize the alerts.It's known that most of the people on board didn't die because of hypoxia, but because of the impact on the ground. One of the flight attendants tried to take control of the plane after noticing the pilots were not responding to his calls. Because of hypoxia, he took some time to figure out the password to access the cockpit. When he finally entered, he was already very disoriented. He was having flying lessons, because he wanted to be promoted to pilot by Heilos, but he had only piloted the small prop ones. Never handled the jets, so he didn't know what to do to fly that airplane, the investigatos assumed.I've never seen that video before. As I heard the F-16 pilot describing the scenes, I started remembering what I saw in Mayday's episode about this crash. Specially when the F-16 pilot said the guy in the cockpit of the 737 was making signals to him. I remembered the flight attendant shaking his hand on the window. I'd like to see the footage from the F-16 that was behing the 737, so that we can see the airplane. Edited January 25, 2012 by barfra1995

[738 73]

I'm not a real pilot nor engineer, but from what I heard, it was the engineers job to put the switch back to AUTO, probably because he's supposed to leave the airplane exactly how he found it regardin switches position and that stuff. But the pilots are also guilty because of their failure to recognize and take corrective actions to prevent the accident. The co-pilot, which is responsible for checking the pressurization panel, didn't notice the switch was in the wrong position and didn't realized the plane was not pressurizing as they climbed. Both pilots also failed to recognize the pressurization alarm. They confused it with a Takeoff Configuration warning. So, from my point of view, everybody is guilty, especially the pilots (I have to say I hate when pilots are guilty of an accident, probably because I want to become one) because of their failure to prevent the situation and to rtecognize the alerts.

Yeah that sounds right to me, anyone who alters a switch is responsable to put it back in the right position.

[flyinpilot212121 724]

isnt it a checklist item?

[KriVa 307]

On our checklists, it's the third item on the preflight checklist.

[OmniAtlas 93]

It's known that most of the people on board didn't die because of hypoxia, but because of the impact on the ground. One of the flight attendants tried to take control of the plane after noticing the pilots were not responding to his calls. Because of hypoxia, he took some time to figure out the password to access the cockpit. When he finally entered, he was already very disoriented. He was having flying lessons, because he wanted to be promoted to pilot by Heilos, but he had only piloted the small prop ones. Never handled the jets, so he didn't know what to do to fly that airplane, the investigatos assumed.

Post 9-11 locked cabin doors, how do you figure out the access password to the cockpit? I'm just wondering if there was easier access perhaps he could have made it quicker to the yoke and stabilised the aircraft.

[rictus 7]

From reading the official crash report via b737.org.uk, it appears that there were three occasions when the pilots should have checked that particular setting as part of their standard procedure and failed to do so... It also noted that the pilots were overstretched to meet performance targets that probably had them cutting corners or that they were fatigued...What's scary is that one of the pilots of the F-16's sent to intercept observed a man staggering into the cockpit and attempting to gain control before he too passed out. It later turned out he had a PPL... It was also noted that the passengers were alive at point of impact but were unconscious due to the hypoxia. Possibly the best way to die in a plane crash (not that there is any good way to die, of course)...From the official report:The latent causes were:

• Operator’s deficiencies in the organization, quality management, and safety culture.
• Regulatory Authority’s diachronic inadequate execution of its safety oversight responsibilities.
• Inadequate application of Crew Resource Management principles.
• Ineffectiveness of measures taken by the manufacturer in response to previous pressurization incidents in the particular type of aircraft.

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

Post 9-11 locked cabin doors, how do you figure out the access password to the cockpit? I'm just wondering if there was easier access perhaps he could have made it quicker to the yoke and stabilised the aircraft.

It's a fixed password I guess. Every airplane should have their own, but because the flight attendant was confused due to hypoxia, he probably couldn't remember the numbers. Edited January 25, 2012 by barfra1995

[WebMaximus 372]

Don't remember if the a/c was already out of fuel when the flight attendant entered the flightdeck or if there was still some fuel left. If it was not I guess it would be a touch task to bring the a/c down safely even for a real pilot depending on how close the nearest airport was of course and at what altitude the a/c was.I guess if you try to find a good thing in this accident that would be the a/c crashed into a hill/mountain rather than into a habited area.

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Wouldn't they regain conscientiousness after the plane descended?