Hi all. I'm hoping for a little RW insight here. When on ILS approach...1) when/how do you chose to use autoland?2) assuming no autoland, when do you decide to disengage the autopilot, and similarly,3) when do you disengage the autothrottle?Thanks in advance!George

Hi if you look on the PPRuNe site under Rumours and News, there is a thread called "SIA 777 off the rwy at EDDM" where there is an ongoing discussion on when to use autoland. Some of the posters are of the view that this incident was caused by the "lack of protection" during the autoland. The thread goes into some detail of how often in RW, autolands should be practised. As in all internet discussions there are a few different opinions, but non the less you may well find it an interesting read.

The aircraft i flew, and the current ones i fly never had autoland. I treat them all the same. If im flying in clear vfr weather, i will click of autothrottles/autopilot at about 1000ft. This allows me to warm up my hands and get a feel of what is needed to stay stablized. If im in the weather, I will leave every thing egaged until im visual. In the dc-10 and the Gulfstream 5/550, i can land with autothrottles engaged but no one ever does this. I also do the same in turbulence and heavy winds. I prefer the wing low crosswind method. I will apply crosswind controls at 500 to 300ft. Once again it gives some time to warm up my hands and legs. Last thing i want to do is figure out crosswind controls and drift kill just prior to touch down.

The aircraft i flew, and the current ones i fly never had autoland. I treat them all the same. If im flying in clear vfr weather, i will click of autothrottles/autopilot at about 1000ft.

Even on the visual?

If im in the weather, I will leave every thing egaged until im visual.

Wouldn't it be more interesting to fly the IMC approaches by hand? I take it your PIC in the G5? When you guys do your PIC/Captains Check every 6 months, do they wanna see a handflown approach or Autoflight approach?

I prefer the wing low crosswind method.

Arent you afraid your gonna scrape a wingtip? The G5 has got some pretty long wings.JB

Edited February 3, 201214 yr by Buzz313th

Hi all. I'm hoping for a little RW insight here. When on ILS approach...1) when/how do you chose to use autoland?Normaly when you cannot land manually in case of lack in visibitlity in CAT3 ILS, you use (in the 737) by setting the ils frequency in both NAV1 and NAV2 and the course in both course indicators of the MCP, in APP mode make sure all APs are on2) assuming no autoland, when do you decide to disengage the autopilot, and similarly,When you want, it's the PF choice3) when do you disengage the autothrottle?When you want, it's the PF choice. In autoland the autothrottle disengages by itslef during touchdownThanks in advance!George

Unless required by weather minimums, at my company are hand-flown. Sometimes MX requests an autoland for A/C currency. On approach, if the A/P is off, the A/T is off, per Boeing.

Unless required by weather minimums, at my company are hand-flown. Sometimes MX requests an autoland for A/C currency. On approach, if the A/P is off, the A/T is off, per Boeing.

Thanks for the good info guys. On the above... The two functions are disabled independantly, yes? I think you are saying that it is SOP to disable them in concert, but one must flip two switches, yes?Regards,George

Thanks for the good info guys. On the above... The two functions are disabled independantly, yes? I think you are saying that it is SOP to disable them in concert, but one must flip two switches, yes?Regards,George

That is correct. I have the A/P disconnect linked to my "1" button on my CH Yoke and A/T disarm linked to the "2" button (the two finger buttons). Keep in mind that if you use key presses, the first press disarms the function and the second press cancels the warning (A/P) and/or the flashing red indication on the Autopilot / Autothrottle Indicators (FCOM Vol. 2 Pg. 205 (4.10.21)).EDIT: By the way, I'm not a pro nor do I claim to be...I've just spent a lot of time studying these manuals :)

Edited February 3, 201214 yr by adamant365

This is not common but I usually hand fly to cruise altitude and then turn off the autopilot and autothrottles somewhere between 20,000 and 10,000 feet. I feel this keeps my skills sharper and I took this job because I like to fly planes so why let the autopilot do it all the time.

This is not common but I usually hand fly to cruise altitude and then turn off the autopilot and autothrottles somewhere between 20,000 and 10,000 feet. I feel this keeps my skills sharper and I took this job because I like to fly planes so why let the autopilot do it all the time.

Amen BrotherPlus One for yaJB

I'd love to simulate this procedure. Right now though, the workload is just too high. Once a certain awesome dev releases a certain required library such that a certain *other* awsome dev can release their awesome product, I'll have some help on the flight deck ;)

I'd love to simulate this procedure. Right now though, the workload is just too high. Once a certain awesome dev releases a certain required library such that a certain *other* awsome dev can release their awesome product, I'll have some help on the flight deck ;)

Or better yet, once someone comes up with a real shared cockpit solution, then you can sit your buddy in the other seat and handfly to your hearts delight.JB

Even on the visual?Depends on the procedure im flying. If im circling, I usually hand fly after reaching MDA. Just keep in mind that these days you are more of a manager than a pilot. When the automation is engaged, you have much more SA. More brain cellsto share for different tasks. When going into busy or unfamiliar airports, i tend to leave things engaged until we are on base. This gives me a little more time to compare to the charts, spot traffic, obstacles, and deal with ATC. Once thats done, I can just concentrate on speed, glide path, and aim point.Wouldn't it be more interesting to fly the IMC approaches by hand? I take it your PIC in the G5? When you guys do your PIC/Captains Check every 6 months, do they wanna see a handflown approach or Autoflight approach?Though it may be more interesting, it's alot better to let george fly so that you are less likely to get channelized on instruments while on approach. When in the weather, things like step done fixes, timing, ATC, and minimums become more important. The autopilot will fly it better than the pilot as long as it has the correct information. During this time i'm just managing the automation, cross checking information, progressing with the approach plate and peering through the HUD/EVS. For example, my ops limit me to a crosswind limit of 10kts when shooting a CAT II approach manual. If I leave on the automation, I am limited to a 20kt crosswind. In the event I go missed, all i have to do is hit the toga button and the aircraft will perform a auto go. All I have to do is configure the aircraft and it will fly to the missed app point and enter holding. As far as the check goes, you have to perform both manual and automatic approaches to include a manual and auto go-around.Arent you afraid your gonna scrape a wingtip? The G5 has got some pretty long wings.Naw lol, if you constantly have more than 5 degrees bank on a crosswind, then something may be wrong. Even in hefty crosswinds, it dont take much bank to drift kill. You will notice it takes more input into the wind before the plane responds. Depending on the winds, you may have some wing wagging going on. You will touch down on the upwind main and then the other on center line or a little bit up wind. After that it's just maintaining wings level. I prefer to figure out how much rudder and opposite aileron i need a little earlier than the touch down point. I do have some prior kc-135r drivers who wait till the touchdown point to drift kill. I guess they couldnt wing low much because the engine pods are lower to the ground on the r model.JB

Depends on the procedure im flying. If im circling, I usually hand fly after reaching MDA.

So, your coupled to the AP through MDA? Thats neat. What happens if you don't pick up the field at MDA?

Just keep in mind that these days you are more of a manager than a pilot. When the automation is engaged, you have much more SA. More brain cells

I see, interesting. So you prefer to use the "automation", instead of taking control yourself durring the critical portions of the flight, or is this something your company prefers?

When going into busy or unfamiliar airports, i tend to leave things engaged until we are on base. This gives me a little more time to compare to the charts, spot traffic, obstacles, and deal with ATC. Once thats done, I can just concentrate on speed, glide path, and aim point.

Where's the other crew member? Isn't he suposed to help in sharing the workload? I'm not sure, but isn't the G5 suposed to be flown by two crew?

Though it may be more interesting, it's alot better to let george fly so that you are less likely to get channelized on instruments while on approach. When in the weather, things like step done fixes, timing, ATC, and minimums become more important. The autopilot will fly it better than the pilot as long as it has the correct information. During this time i'm just managing the automation, cross checking information, progressing with the approach plate and peering through the HUD/EVS. For example, my ops limit me to a crosswind limit of 10kts when shooting a CAT II approach manual. If I leave on the automation, I am limited to a 20kt crosswind. In the event I go missed, all i have to do is hit the toga button and the aircraft will perform a auto go. All I have to do is configure the aircraft and it will fly to the missed app point and enter holding. As far as the check goes, you have to perform both manual and automatic approaches to include a manual and auto go-around.

Ok, I can see how automation might be a big help. Interesting about the limits on the approaches imposed by your company.

Naw lol, if you constantly have more than 5 degrees bank on a crosswind, then something may be wrong. Even in hefty crosswinds, it dont take much bank to drift kill. You will notice it takes more input into the wind before the plane responds. Depending on the winds, you may have some wing wagging going on. You will touch down on the upwind main and then the other on center line or a little bit up wind. After that it's just maintaining wings level. I prefer to figure out how much rudder and opposite aileron i need a little earlier than the touch down point. I do have some prior kc-135r drivers who wait till the touchdown point to drift kill. I guess they couldnt wing low much because the engine pods are lower to the ground on the r model.

I understand.. So I guess the G5 has enough clearance. Thanks for all that.JB

This is not common but I usually hand fly to cruise altitude and then turn off the autopilot and autothrottles somewhere between 20,000 and 10,000 feet. I feel this keeps my skills sharper and I took this job because I like to fly planes so why let the autopilot do it all the time.

Not a real pilot, but if I'm flying offline I do similar to this. However, if flying on VATSIM I typically engage autopilot immediately after takeoff and then disengage AP/AT when on final. Once FS2Crew comes out I'll be handflying online much more.