MAy I say something, please?

[dmaher 0]

So far there is nothing to indicate that Flight would ever be expanded to serious simulator.

We disagree :)But it's not my intension to change any opinions...it's just my take on things so far.

[Johan_Dees 84]

Mike, well said.Mgh, if you deliver a faulty product, then expect to be taken on a rough flight.I read a nice quote here somewhere, but dont recall it well, something about marketing, "a good product sells, a bad product needs marketing", and MS carefully marketed with giving just enough to get the pot stirred up.Its a real shame they dont communicate. As if someone all of a sudden brings up a competing product in a couple of months to Flight, ridiculous corporate protectionism. It loses respect, credibility and interrest.Funny thing is, we keep on buying and using it! (maybe because previous things they sold us werent as bad, AND got taken some care of after. Altough it could be better, but their attitude is unrespectfull to their customers, and wil bite back on the long run.)

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

May I say a word or two, please?I have read a significant number of threads in the Flight forum here and what I conclude is that there is considerable dissatisfaction, to say the least, about this forthcoming product. Has anyone has anything in the slightest positive to say?I am a MSFS user of considerable vintage. I started some 30 years ago when Version 1 of FS hit the shelves. In those days the sim was more or less just wire frames and dotted lines but I, and many others, enjoyed it because, at last, we could go flying. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever visualise a flight sim of today’s reality and complexity.Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.David

Wow, you'd feel right at home in China. They have a good set of rules to keep opinionated people like us in line.

[mgh 89]

Mgh, if you deliver a faulty product, then expect to be taken on a rough flight.

Which faulty product - FSX or Flight? Either way that has nothing to do with respect.

[Johan_Dees 84]

mgh, I understand waht you try to tell, but its about courtesy, respect to..cour·te·sy   [kur-tuh-see or, for 5, kurt-see] Show IPA noun, plural -sies, adjectivenoun1.excellence of manners or social conduct; polite behavior.2.a courteous, respectful, or considerate act or expression.3.indulgence, consent, or acquiescence: a “colonel” by courtesy rather than by right.4.favor, help, or generosity: The costumes for the play were by courtesy of the local department store.5.a curtsy.

adjective

6.done or performed as a matter of courtesy or protocol: acourtesy call on the mayor.

7.offered or provided free by courtesy of the management:While waiting to board the airplane, we were provided withcourtesy coffee.

I know you love to debate this, but I think I, and some others made it clear to you. If still unclear then sorry, I cant explain much better.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Johan_Dees

[N738NM 0]

All I want to see from the base Flight is a powerful rendering engine and an expanded flight model. That’s it - nothing else. If they can deliver that the rest can come by expansion; because, all the other systems are attachments and content. I am very anxious for Flight’s release…I want to see for myself what we have here :)

Yes, I'd like to enjoy a more powerful rendering engine and an expanded flight model, too (the beta-testers have suggested this is true). But, it's the "deliver the rest" part that I doubt. It's just a bummer that there may be improvements to the mechanics of the sim, I mean game, but I won't be able to enjoy them unless I fly in Hawaii. And, yes, I know there's room for expansion. But, how long will it take and how much will it cost me? I'm just frustrated that MS has dangled the carrot of improvements, but limited the content.

Flight as a product is irrelevant because Microsoft can make whatever that want to make however, when you lie to people's faces about everything from the start of development all the way through the beta test then man up and take the beating you have coming. If you feel that behavior is worthy of respect then that is up to you.

Good posts, Mike. It's maddening. It seems that the objectives of the program changed during development (based on what we have read from PMDG and Orbx), but MS as recently as December propagated the lie that there was something of value for legacy users. I know we are in a world where lies are de rigeur, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Edited February 9, 2012 by N738NM

[mgh 89]

mgh, I understand waht you try to tell, but its about courtesy, respect to..

when I go into a shop and buy something then that's it - unless of course it's faulty when I expect tio have it put right.I don't know the shopkeeper: he doesn't know me. Respect doesn't come into it.

[dmaher 0]

But, how long will it take and how much will it cost me? I'm just frustrated that MS has dangled the carrot of improvements, but limited the content.

Regrettably I think it would take some time. The most detailed and challenging work takes a lot of time to make.With FSX it took a while too. The transition between platforms seems to take a few years.In the lifetime of Flight I think the early times will be about new users...But the future, for staying power, will naturally refocus on recurrent users.And recurrent users are users with skillz. But really who knows? ;)

[Marith 2]

I don't know the shopkeeper: he doesn't know me. Respect doesn't come into it.

So it's ok for him to tell you that you're a <derogatory word> and vice versa?

[Johan_Dees 84]

mgh, you are disconnected.The product he sells should do flawless what it intends to do. A microwave what heats up now and then is faulty and doesnt do what it advertises.If the shopkeeper makes promises and he fullfills it you go back and back to sell more, you have respect for each other. He keeps you as a customer, and you go back for a thrustworthy salesman, who delivers what he promises.Btw, laws in countries differ, and here if you sell software you may nt copy it, but it may not be crippled in any way.

[frankla 44]

We disagree :)But it's not my intension to change any opinions...it's just my take on things so far.

The guy at MS said, today, that to have 23000 airport and world coverage is crazy. I take that to mean that there is no intention of creating the world. So to me it is clear that it will never become what FSX was.

[mgh 89]

So it's ok for him to tell you that you're a <derogatory word> and vice versa?

Respect is more than not swearing.

mgh, you are disconnected.The product he sells should do flawless what it intends to do. A microwave what heats up now and then is faulty and doesnt do what it advertises.If the shopkeeper makes promises and he fullfills it you go back and back to sell more, you have respect for each other. He keeps you as a customer, and you go back for a thrustworthy salesman, who delivers what he promises.Btw, laws in countries differ, and here if you sell software you may nt copy it, but it may not be crippled in any way.

No product is flawless - it should what it's advertised to do.And no I won't necessarily go back. I shop around. and if I can find what I want cheaper elsewhere then that's what I'll get. I won't buy a more expensive item simply because of "respect". I imagine most people do that.

[ahuimanu 50]

Now, if I purchase a car and it breaks down frequently, the excuse that I should be happy to even have a car because there only used to be horse drawn carriages is asinine. If I purchase a microwave oven and it consistently burns my food, the excuse that I should be happy with what I have because that was a time when cavemen only had campfire, is asinine. To settle for whatever Microsoft cobbles together to make a profit in an attempt to pass it off as a "legacy of flight simulation" is asinine. Period.

Outstanding Mike.I will only add this... You may recall that not long after the ACES boot (just about 3 years ago), a PR lady gave a statement that said (paraphrasing): "Microsoft remains committed to producing flying games in the future." That we the first whiff of the foulness that will fill the air come 02/29/2012.I was duped, you were duped. Now we have the "astroturfers" coming in and chastising us for our dismay.As John Lennon said: "Strange days indeed..."

[dmaher 0]

:)

[corinoco 22]

All I want to see from the base Flight is a powerful rendering engine and an expanded flight model. That’s it - nothing else.

One thing more - an 'app store' style moderated marketplace - all indications are thats exactly what we are getting.I'm excited about Flight; it is the best thing to happen to flight simming for a long time!