May I say a word or two, please?I have read a significant number of threads in the Flight forum here and what I conclude is that there is considerable dissatisfaction, to say the least, about this forthcoming product. Has anyone has anything in the slightest positive to say?I am a MSFS user of considerable vintage. I started some 30 years ago when Version 1 of FS hit the shelves. In those days the sim was more or less just wire frames and dotted lines but I, and many others, enjoyed it because, at last, we could go flying. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever visualise a flight sim of today’s reality and complexity.Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.David

And if you had had that attitude 'some 30 years ago'... you'd STILL be flying around in 'wire frames and dotted lines'...I, and others DO appreciate what we have, but is it wrong to hope for progress?

And if you had had that attitude 'some 30 years ago'... you'd STILL be flying around in 'wire frames and dotted lines'...I, and others DO appreciate what we have, but is it wrong to hope for progress?

It is not wrong to hope for progress but it is absolutely wrong to bash an organisation for not living up to your version of progress...MS do not owe you anything, progress included.

It is not wrong to hope for progress but it is absolutely wrong to bash an organisation for not living up to your version of progress...MS do not owe you anything, progress included.

Where have I bashed MS? Actually, I clearly said I 'appreciate what we have'.Where did I say anyone owed me anything? I mentioned 'hope'.

Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.

Well, I'm not happy that I spent so much money on Microsoft products for twenty years and now they've killed the future of my hobby. FSX is still as good as it gets, but it's old and after spending five years playing it I would appreciate something new and optimized for state of the art hardware. After being feed with updates for Flight Simulator for 25 years am I not allowed to be shocked when it stops all of a sudden... Old habits die hard.On the other hand, FLIGHT might be a great game. If it looks and sounds fun to you then why care what everybody else feels. Most AVSIMers are "hard core simmers" and not the target audience for FLIGHT so we're all whining in vain, but as a therapist or psychologist will tell you, talking about it makes the healing go faster. Even among the hard core simmers there are lots of enthusiastic supporters of FLIGHT. Most of them just don't feel like sharing that on AVSIM with all the personal attacks, ROFLOLs and ridicule offered by many of the members in here.

May I say a word or two, please?I have read a significant number of threads in the Flight forum here and what I conclude is that there is considerable dissatisfaction, to say the least, about this forthcoming product. Has anyone has anything in the slightest positive to say?I am a MSFS user of considerable vintage. I started some 30 years ago when Version 1 of FS hit the shelves. In those days the sim was more or less just wire frames and dotted lines but I, and many others, enjoyed it because, at last, we could go flying. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever visualise a flight sim of today’s reality and complexity.Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.David

there is a forum thread with post for folks that have considerable hope for a bright future for Flight .. so, yes some are positive.

May I say a word or two, please?I have read a significant number of threads in the Flight forum here and what I conclude is that there is considerable dissatisfaction, to say the least, about this forthcoming product. Has anyone has anything in the slightest positive to say?I am a MSFS user of considerable vintage. I started some 30 years ago when Version 1 of FS hit the shelves. In those days the sim was more or less just wire frames and dotted lines but I, and many others, enjoyed it because, at last, we could go flying. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever visualise a flight sim of today’s reality and complexity.Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.David

David, I think the silent majority shares your attitude. The whining from the self proclaimed 'elite simmers' is getting nauseating. I am looking forward to another simulator. If I don't like it, I'll stick to FSX with its addons instead of whining on the internet.

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by Fox-Bat

And if you had had that attitude 'some 30 years ago'... you'd STILL be flying around in 'wire frames and dotted lines'...

Well, if appreciation is an attitude then it's an attitude I'm glad to profess. Personally, I have gor further in life by appreciating what has been provided for me than complaining and expecting what has not.There is nothing wrong with wanting and hoping to see progress but when it does not come in the form that we expect then we should resort to other ways of trying to achieve that progress rather than complaining and rubbishing what is being done. I find some of the posts in this part of the forum quite amazing when you consider that we have yet to download and use Flight.Microsoft are in the business of generating maximum revenue and if they see this being achieved by producing Flight as a game which little Johhnie can play with for five minutes until he gets bored with crashing his plane and then throws the whole thing away, then so be it. I don't think that we can expect, as our right, for Microsoft to produce a simulator which is going to cater for the very exacting requirements of the dedicated flight simulation enthusiast. In the big scheme of things we are small in number and Microsoft have got to consider the costs involved and revenue achievable in developing Flight as the next big step forward from FSX. If that does happen then that will be great. If it doesn't then there will be a big bunch of very unhappy people but I won't be one of them as I appreciate what I already have.David

Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor.

Absolutely agree with you on this. When I purchased FS2002 I fully expected that my adopted country, New Zealand, would not be represented at all. Hey, we are nearly falling off the edge of the world here. To my astonishment every single airport and airstrip was there, even though the representation was very default. Shame they did not even include our Auckland harbour bridge that I travel over every day. But that came later via a bunch of tremendous free-ware that I downloaded for FS2004.For a few years I flitted all over the place flying from here to there, Then I began working on enhancing just a few areas of the world that I found particularly appealing to fly in - always with excellent free-ware available via AVSIM . I then purchased a few excellent GA aircraft to add to the immersion factor. Now the rest of the world is pretty much wasted space on my hard drive.And so, the idea of FLIGHT appeals to me as, hopefully, it will provide me with high fidelity sceneries for places I want to fly in and, hopefully good quality aircraft to do the flying in. However, my purchases will be very selective as I have said in other posts.I have no doubts that MS has the capability to provide this. Others have different priorities and, if FLIGHT is to be a success, they will have to be catered for also.If FLIGHT falls on it's face as many are predicting then we have the option of staying with the sim of our choice or going elsewhere. I personally cannot imagine that MS would even contemplate doing enything to prevent that.

David, I think the silent majority shares your attitude. The whining from the self proclaimed 'elite simmers' is getting nauseating.I am looking forward to another simulator. If I don't like it, I'll stick to FSX with its addons instead of whining on the internet.

HelloAre the "silent majority" the ones who have magically appeared in the last month or so to defend MS Flight!

May I say a word or two, please?I have read a significant number of threads in the Flight forum here and what I conclude is that there is considerable dissatisfaction, to say the least, about this forthcoming product. Has anyone has anything in the slightest positive to say?I am a MSFS user of considerable vintage. I started some 30 years ago when Version 1 of FS hit the shelves. In those days the sim was more or less just wire frames and dotted lines but I, and many others, enjoyed it because, at last, we could go flying. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever visualise a flight sim of today’s reality and complexity.Instead of criticizing, whining and generally rubbishing Microsoft’s Flight may I suggest you take a look at what you have today, now on your PC? Whether you fly FS2002, FS2004 or FSX you have a wonderful simulation of incredible reality and with an unrivalled immersive factor. Addons and third party development abound. The world is your oyster. Appreciate what you have.David

Could not disagree more on most of this. Kinda reads to me as if I owe MS something. I appreciate what I have (paid for), but, if you're bringing something to the market place then the market will comment.Flight is getting the feedback it deserves (asked for IMHO). If MS can't handle the heat then Bill Gates isn't worth billions. From my perspective THEY approached the existing FS users through AVSIM and other venues to tout their product. A vocal segment (minority/ majority or otherwise) has voiced their opinion. To the generous degree that AVSIM has allowed that feedback on their site some users have spoken their opinion good, unsure or terrible. And that is bad? Things change because people give feedback. No sim will ever be all things to all users, but, if MS or any other developer is going to bring their product to the market place and not expect the full gamut of feedback then they need new marketing. Now many users may try it and then change their opinion one way or another - welcome to the dynamic market place.

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by Joe L

Hey, we are nearly falling off the edge of the world here.

Hi JoeI thought you had fallen off !!!! Sorry, but I couldn't resist that.All the best.David

On a side note, the NFL has announced that in an effort to generate more revenue and new fans, it has changed the rules to that of Canadian football. Don't worry, it is a new and exciting way to play, just appreciate what you have and remember, the NFL doesn't owe you anything.My apologies to Canadian football fans. :)

I remember a time when music was enjoyed on records and cassette tapes. I also remember a time when I made $3.25 per hour on my first job while in High School.So according to your logic, if a company offers me sub standard music CD, or an employer offers me a sub standard wage, I should ignore THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS and be thankful that I'm being offered marginally more than I had decades ago? In other words you desperately attempt to justify mediocrity by comparing the current state of the art to the state of the art 10 or 20 years ago?There was a store in New York City called Syms, a clothing store and a very good one at that. The slogan for Syms was "an EDUCATED consumer is our best customer." What does that mean? It has nothing to do with a college degree or a fancy diploma. An educated consumer knows and understands what is available to him or her and will not settle for a lesser product at any price. An educated consumer is prepared to refute garbage dressed up and offered in the robes of legitimacy, irrespective of the price. An educated consumer understands that IF a company wishes to receive compensation for a product, then the company OWES it to the consumer to offer the very best product possible. An educated consumer understands that the consumer/supplier relationship is just that, a relationship and the first rule of relationships is ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH. So yes I've said the "O" word a few times sol et me say that again so it is clear: OWES IT TO THE CONSUMER. Syms is now out of business because they are a victim of their own idiology. Alas, most consumers are NOT educated. Most consumers will accept garbage from Walmart than hold a company to a standard of excellence. Most consumers ignorantly believe that it is THEY who should be grateful to the company for selling them something when, in truth, it is the other way around. Most consumers are thankful that Walmart gave them the pleasure of allowing them in their store when in fact it is Walmart that should beg for the pleasure of EARNING your money.Now, if I purchase a car and it breaks down frequently, the excuse that I should be happy to even have a car because there only used to be horse drawn carriages is asinine. If I purchase a microwave oven and it consistently burns my food, the excuse that I should be happy with what I have because that was a time when cavemen only had campfire, is asinine. To settle for whatever Microsoft cobbles together to make a profit in an attempt to pass it off as a "legacy of flight simulation" is asinine. Period.And let me make it clear. IF Microsoft had been HONEST in the first place and admitted what they were building was a severely crippled version of FSX focused on bringing the much more profitable gamer crowd into the mix no one would fault them for that. Microsoft is in business to make a profit and it is free to do so as it sees fit. Microsoft doesn't OWE us a new product for flight simulation. However, what they OWE us is the TRUTH. The TRUTH is owed to a community that has been loyal to Microsoft's franchise for more than two decades and have made it one of the longest running and most successful titles in history.- From the start they knew that Flight was Hawaii only and despite the clamoring and speculation they let that fester for almost two years.- From the start they knew that Flight was targeted at a totally different audience yet they perpetuated the lie that the legacy of "Flight Simulator" would remain intact.- From the start they knew that the REASON they took "Simulator" from the title was specifically because it is targeted at being a game despite their denial that the change was just a marketing refresh of the title.- From the start they knew that Flight is just a hugely stripped down version of FSX but let rumors run rampant. They should seriously fire their marketing department and project managers working on Flight.- From the start they knew that "optimized flight engine" meant that the removed 90% of the things from FSX so Flight would run faster. (How much faster does FSX run with no AI, ATC, real world weather and a simple cockpit?) Optimized my *ss- From the start they knew the fiasco that Flight would cause. You would think that after shattering the community in two after the FS9 and FSX fiasco that they would not want to further fracture the community again. Well they did.- From the start they knew that the "beta test" was a shameful waste of time and energy and didn't meet the benchmark for either "beta" or "testing." It was actually a small focus group of the RTM product and a test of how easy it was to sign up with XBOX Live as well as a server load test that they had to BRIBE testers to attend because participation rates were so low.-The hurtful and maddening thing is that Aces members were a part of this debacle. They are the same team that cracked the community after FSX was released and despite all odds, they found a way to do it again. So, for me the existence of Flight is inconsequential because I won't be using it. If you want to get a sneak peak at Flight, simply buy an Orbx scenery and refrain from leaving its confines, delete all your other detailed scenery, delete all your other airplanes except the Trike, turn off real world weather, turn off all AI traffic, and put your slider to easy. There you go. Flight....and great performance too!At the end of the day sir, I leave you with a saying by Clint Eastwood: "Don't p*ss down my back and tell me its raining." That's exactly what Microsoft did and that's where the ill will comes from, not from their decision to release Flight as a thinly veiled XBOX game. I don't suffer fools, and if calling BS when it is warranted is whining then so be it.

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by Mike T

+1I am sure that many many people feel exactly this way.