MS Flight - I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I really did

[mjl1966 5]

So, after reading the Avsim review in its entirety, Here's what I've learned.1. I can't fly from anywhere to anywhere. I can fly around Hawaii. There is no underlying model of the world. I can pay $20 to download more of Hawaii. 2. I have to hack a file to use my Saitek flight controls and I can only map to a few controls. And no differential brakes.3. Nobody will be able to write 3rd party mods for this environment. Only M$ DLC will be available.4. Nobody will be able to interface with the program whatsoever except through M$ DLC.5. Lots of promises about DLS. Sounds like Hope and Change to me.OK, so what this means for me is that M$ is giving me nothing and is not letting anybody else give me anything either. If you're going to lock out the entire flight sim ecosystem without replacing it with something, there is zero hope for Flight being adopted by the current M$ flightsim market. So, what am I supposed to like about all this exactly?Steve Balmer obviously has no clue about his market and has just lost every single flight sim user that is currently flying. (The casual simmers quit a long time ago.)And what's up with the review? You guys basically told me all of the things we suspected are true but that somehow that's OK because it will magically get better later. Some day. Some how. Give me a break. Where's the press release on when and how they are going to give us back our 24000 airports? Show me that and I'll listen. Some day. Some how. Maybe.Fine. I'll wait and see. But they have a LONG way to go before they even come close to what I have come to expect from my flight simming "user experience".And X-PLANE is throwing a big party right now. And they should. Steve just handed them the entire current FS community. On a silver platter.And I was one of those saying "Wait, surely they understand they need to take care of the current simming community. They're not idiots." Boy, was I wrong.

[jbinner 15]

I've been quiet on the entire matter, till now.A GIANT:+1basically says everything I've been wanting to say.

[jagabom 21]

+2. What's with all that xml code for the null zone? Just give me a slider so I can fly. Thumbs down. :Phbbbt:JimCYWG

Edited March 1, 2012 by jagabom

[Robert W 3]

And what's up with the review? You guys basically told me all of the things we suspected are true but that somehow that's OK because it will magically get better later.

I hear ya. Remember this is a review from a contributing reviewer who is just "another simmer". There is no "you guys"....he's just an honest reporter getting the word out to the masses as to what to expect.Didn't we all know that MSFS died with Aces Studio shutting down. Weren't we all expecting a game to be released. From my own experience....it's Sunday afternoon brain candy. Fly a mission win some points, whoo hoo :Yawn: .Just my opinion....not the world according to AVSIM.

[Gaiiden 98]

I've been considering writing an opinion peice in my staff blog that's more from the view of Flight vs. FSX rather than Flight as its own product... but honestly I think everyone knows it's just how Robert said it, we just all hate to accept it. Flight is a game, it's not a simulator. MS did one thing right and it was dropping the second half of the product name. At best it's for whenever you want to "kick loose" and just buzz around - which I have to admit I forgot how much fun that is.

[cstrosser 0]

Like they say on the radio shows (modified for the web, of course)--"Long time reader, first time poster."When I first embarked on the journey of virtual aviation, I went straight for FSX. It was challenging, fun, and it made me more curious about the world, and especially about aviation. The lessons written by a real life pilot were equally enjoyable, and really helped me master the simulator. Then, I moved onto the complex topics and FSX accommodated everything and more. As I wanted to increase the challenge, FSX would let me. After I started using better hardware, which I require as a programmer, FSX stopped working as well. In fact, I couldn't finish a flight without enduring a crash. But... I *LOVED* FSX. I wasn't going to let a stupid computer crash stop me.I did the next logical thing. I went onto the forums and started asking questions. Dozens and dozens of people had the same problems. Even after two service pack installations, the problems were not solved. Then, I learned the ACES Studio was gone. Meaning no more updates to the most popular flight simulator. At first, I unwillingly went over to X-Plane 9; however, it wasn't long before I fell in love with the product. It had all the same functionality, a great community, and easy access for developers. Most importantly, it was still being updated and improved. Microsoft didn't lose me here though. I had my eye on MS Flight. I watched with eager engagement, perhaps a bit obsessively!Despite being a loyal X-Plane 9/10 user, I had high hopes for MS Flight. When I saw it was released today, I was so damn excited. I stopped everything to download the new-and-improved simulator, and give it a go. After tweaking my settings for "realism" and assigning my axes, buttons, etc., I gave it a fair shot.Sadness! Disappointment! The rumors were true. Microsoft Flight converted a simulator used by flight instructors, pilots, and aviation buffs into a game to be used by anyone, including my six year old niece. I mean no disrespect to the author of the opinion piece, but I got the impression Mr. Feliz-Tirado might have been in a bit of denial. Hell, I was in denial up until today, when I actually got a chance to try MS Flight.The conclusion stated:

It is normal to resist change, even when beneficial. This is a common human trait and the reaction to Flight was to be expected. But there really is no reason to despair. Flight is a very good base for a complete flight simulator. It seems to be relatively trouble-free, highly extensible, and holds a lot of promise.

To suggest that this is a matter of "resisting change," is a bit short-sighted. The author said it himself, "No Artificial Intelligence (AI) aircraft traffic, no Air Traffic Control (ATC), no Flight Planner, and no Real Weather. No worldwide coverage with 24000+ airports." MS Flight is a glorified arcade game... a 1/4-finished version of FSX with prettier graphics. FSX should have been their baseline. Even with FSX as a baseline, they still could have added the arcade-style gaming aspect.The MS Flight developers have said that this was a game designed for a mouse and keyboard. They also said, "The best thing about Microsoft Flight is the focus on the experience of flight, not about the act of operating an airplane. That's a fundamental shift. I can do things in the game that I couldn't do in real life." Yes, the "experience of flight" is very important, but so is the act of operating an aircraft. Most of us love aircraft that attempt to mimic the real deal. It's part of the experience. I've seen some aircraft designers create complex aircraft, but with functionality that allows them to skip to the flying part. This allows realism for those who want it, and the "experience" for others.With FSX and X-Plane, we can fly anywhere in the world easily. I don't remember if FSX was accurate, but in X-Plane we have accurate scenery and roads, allowing us to fly visual approaches that reference a freeway or a park. With MS Flight, you get Hawaii, and nothing more. The "Hawaiian Adventure Pack" is $19.99. Will California be $19.99? Will we have to pay $19.99 for each 10,000 sq. mile area? So, not only is it lacking functionality that would make it a simulator, but it seems like it will be cost prohibitive to many people.I had high hopes for Flight, but I'm sticking with X-Plane 10. MS Flight is probably going to be nice for a much different, less serious audience--plain and simple. Edited March 1, 2012 by cstrosser

[BeechV35Pilot 0]

Overall a detailed first review and I enjoyed reading it.However, one point: The reviewer used phrases like, "it is natural to resist change," but IMO that idea trivializes what I believe are the more obvious issues: Most active simmers have a lot of money invested in add-ons to make FSX or FS2004 as close to the real experience as possible and most are unwilling to throw away those costs for a simulator that only provides a small fraction of the complete flight sim experience.Indeed there may be a lot to come, but if truly MS has closed off Flight to the payware and freeware expansion by the community, they have removed the one element that I believe had made the MSFS franchise so large.

Edited March 1, 2012 by BeechV35Pilot

[Stick 0]

Robert, I appreciate your intention in allowing a contributing member of the community to share their very individual view of what Flight is, and what it means for the community.However as I feel this review fails to represent an unprecedented amount of the community's views, I hope you will allow further such reviews of Flight so that other views can also be represented.Kind regards,Stick

Edited March 1, 2012 by Stick

[Gaiiden 98]

Perhaps Robert would consider opening up a section in the Members Review area for Flight reviews. Although I would also hope we're able to moderate the publishing of such reviews. I'm not interested in reading a rant-filled hate peice but I am interested in reading other people's views on the matter so long as they remain sensible about it.

[Ron Attwood 3,466]

....I'm not interested in reading a rant-filled hate piece but I am interested in reading other people's views on the matter so long as they remain sensible about it.

It could well be that their view IS hate filled. If something angers one so much then the review will reflect that anger/frustration/whatever, no? The same goes for the opposite view, but that would probably be labelled 'fanboyism'Just a thought.Peace, Ron

[tf51d 284]

So, after reading the Avsim review in its entirety, Here's what I've learned.1. I can't fly from anywhere to anywhere. I can fly around Hawaii. There is no underlying model of the world. I can pay $20 to download more of Hawaii. 2. I have to hack a file to use my Saitek flight controls and I can only map to a few controls. And no differential brakes.3. Nobody will be able to write 3rd party mods for this environment. Only M$ DLC will be available.4. Nobody will be able to interface with the program whatsoever except through M$ DLC.5. Lots of promises about DLS. Sounds like Hope and Change to me.OK, so what this means for me is that M$ is giving me nothing and is not letting anybody else give me anything either. If you're going to lock out the entire flight sim ecosystem without replacing it with something, there is zero hope for Flight being adopted by the current M$ flightsim market.So, what am I supposed to like about all this exactly?Steve Balmer obviously has no clue about his market and has just lost every single flight sim user that is currently flying. (The casual simmers quit a long time ago.)And what's up with the review? You guys basically told me all of the things we suspected are true but that somehow that's OK because it will magically get better later. Some day. Some how. Give me a break. Where's the press release on when and how they are going to give us back our 24000 airports? Show me that and I'll listen. Some day. Some how. Maybe.Fine. I'll wait and see. But they have a LONG way to go before they even come close to what I have come to expect from my flight simming "user experience".And X-PLANE is throwing a big party right now. And they should. Steve just handed them the entire current FS community. On a silver platter.And I was one of those saying "Wait, surely they understand they need to take care of the current simming community. They're not idiots." Boy, was I wrong.

While I agree with most of what you say, can we knock it off with the M$ stuff. Up til now the only money you gave to MS was for the base pack and maybe acceleration. Without that we wouldn't be here today, so you should b grateful, that MS kept the Hardcore FS franchise around this long. Remember there was pressure on Aces which they resisted to do this back with FSX. That's why there are Missions in that platform, but they managed to keep the hard core code in tact, which I am really thankful for. Remember MS is a business, it's only natural, they'll want to maximize profit as any successful company would. How they do it is their choice, and it's up to the consumer to decide if it's for them, as for the DLC concept, the way they are administering it, for me it's not! Edited March 2, 2012 by tf51d

[magnetite 38]

I agree with your review. I'll stick with FSX for the time being.

Edited March 3, 2012 by magnetite

[Chock 17,769]

While I agree with most of what you say, can we knock it off with the M$ stuff.

+1 for this. After all, it's not like all the FSX and FS9 payware developers are charities, they want to make money too, just like we all do when we drag our asses to work LOL, but we don't see people regularly typing $immarket or Aero$oft or Accu$im in their posts. Since when was wanting to make a buck a crime?Al

[toedv 1]

While I agree with most of what you say, can we knock it off with the M$ stuff.

So you don't think 20 bucks to get a semi functioning airplane, and then 20 more just to see the rest of the islands is a wee bit excessive? This is the worst money grab MS ever tried. And I'm fine with that since I'm a stock holder.

[Ron Attwood 3,466]

+1 for this. After all, it's not like all the FSX and FS9 payware developers are charities, they want to make money too, just like we all do when we drag our asses to work LOL, but we don't see people regularly typing $immarket or Aero$oft or Accu$im in their posts. Since when was wanting to make a buck a crime?Al

Don't forget OrBuck$