Hi all,Not that my opinion matters, but I wanted to give a quick review after a few days. In fact, I brought my PC out of storage for the main purpose of installing Flight (I bought a new iMac a few weeks ago.)I've been a simmer since the Commodore 64 days, and have tallied many hours, and dollars in sceneries/aircraft. I'm not a real world pilot, but enjoy FS, and recently XP10.I, personally (again, flying every sim since the early 80's) am a bit saddened that we, simmers, were not given the next step after FSX. A new sim, with an open world, new upgrades, new dynamics, etc. I totally understand that MS is going more mainstream and console, but we, the hardcore simmers, are seemingly being left with an arcady game.Listen, I know that there may be huge potential for us with this game/sim in the future, but I feel that we have always had sort of a cultish clan that looked forward to every new FS offering...and that now that has come to an end perhaps as it's gone mainstream.We'll see what the future holds.Please don't take this as a rip on Flight. It's great, for the audience it is pointed at. But as a long-time simmer, I feel a bit bummed that we weren't introduced to the next big step in FS'ing, for FS'ers.Just my .02.Bob

Hi all,Not that my opinion matters, but I wanted to give a quick review after a few days. In fact, I brought my PC out of storage for the main purpose of installing Flight (I bought a new iMac a few weeks ago.)I've been a simmer since the Commodore 64 days, and have tallied many hours, and dollars in sceneries/aircraft. I'm not a real world pilot, but enjoy FS, and recently XP10.I, personally (again, flying every sim since the early 80's) am a bit saddened that we, simmers, were not given the next step after FSX. A new sim, with an open world, new upgrades, new dynamics, etc. I totally understand that MS is going more mainstream and console, but we, the hardcore simmers, are seemingly being left with an arcady game.Listen, I know that there may be huge potential for us with this game/sim in the future, but I feel that we have always had sort of a cultish clan that looked forward to every new FS offering...and that now that has come to an end perhaps as it's gone mainstream.We'll see what the future holds.Please don't take this as a rip on Flight. It's great, for the audience it is pointed at. But as a long-time simmer, I feel a bit bummed that we weren't introduced to the next big step in FS'ing, for FS'ers.Just my .02.Bob

Bob,I agree with you. I'm hopeful that Flight will develop into something more, but it's going to take a major shift from what I've seen so far in terms of content and marketing strategy. On the bright side, MS has developed a decently performing base product that could be used, if MS decides to allow 3rd party developers in, to build the next generation of flight sim. Stay tuned. In the mean time, have you had a chance to fly the NGX? If you're not into big metal, head on over to Ceranado. There's plenty of fun to be had with FSX.

I also agree. Plus, I have no intention of purchasing any content until/if MS tells me the planned future for this game. Why support a product that currently has no announced future? Bob

I, personally (again, flying every sim since the early 80's) am a bit saddened that we, simmers, were not given the next step after FSX. A new sim, with an open world, new upgrades, new dynamics, etc. I totally understand that MS is going more mainstream and console, but we, the hardcore simmers, are seemingly being left with an arcady game.

Well, there ARE new upgrades and dynamics and it's not an arcady game (try one of the later RV6 landing missions: I doubt if a casual gamer will ever succeed doing them) As a rw pilot with commercial rating I can't complete many of the missions either-draw your own conclusions! :lol

It's an arcady game. Even P 51 doesnt have a cockpit. And It isnt important how well MS Flight works at the moment because you are flying above couple of islands without AI,ATC etc.FSX took two big patches but at least they were free.You had option to buy add-ons or download free add-ons.Now they want you pay 30$ for an island,15$ for a Maule and 10$ for the Mustang without cockpit.So in the future if there would be possibility to fly from JFK to LAX with a jet liner, you will have to pay at least 20$ for Los Angeles, 20 $ for New york,20 $ for B 737.This is the path Microsoft chose to take and I think it will fail.

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by ozgur77

I have no intention of purchasing any content until/if MS tells me the planned future for this game. Why support a product that currently has no announced future?

I want to support FLIGHT because I think it has a lot of potential but, at the same time, I strongly agree with you about the lack of information from the developers about what their plans are for this game. After all, if MS wants us to invest in DLC then they need to share their vision with us.

Your opinion definitely matters! And the quality thing you've done with your opinion is state it in a logical, non-inflammatory form of feedback. I feel Microsoft is listening to feedback as to how to improve this (and future) products. Right now it seems the various forums, and Facebook, are the only places to post - although Microsoft says there will be a feedback section of the Flight website.Is this just a "toe in the water" for Microsoft? Are they trying to see how much of an interest (as in monetarily) there still is in computerized aviation? Will Flight go down one road, and the successor to FSX (if it's built) go down another? I'm posing questions without answers, I know, but these are thoughts I have...For now, I enjoy Flight for what it is - and still fire up FS9 (could never get FSX to run "properly") to practice my rotary wing skills - or lack thereof!

Well, there ARE new upgrades and dynamics and it's not an arcady game (try one of the later RV6 landing missions: I doubt if a casual gamer will ever succeed doing them)

This is a joke right?Your casual simmer will simply do this task with the (fly-by-wire) mouse and be done with it. She will be proud to get silver or gold and call it flying, even though she has no idea about which direction to land in. With enough tries you can get gold even with a tailwind.Having read more posts in this forum than the moderators, I have come to a surprising conclusion. Some people who have been professing to have flown various flight simulators since the dawn of time don't know the basics of flying. Something someone termed Flying 101.Frankly, I am stunned by the outpouring of love for discovering that you can fly an airplane by hand and use VOR to navigate and that wind actually matters when one flies. I am starting to understand that there are far less serious simmers in this hobby than initially thought and that for some, Flight is just a discovery of things that some of us have been doing for many years.When viewed in this light, it makes a lot more sense as to why some people like Flight so much. They are the target audience. Somewhat surprising to find them in Avsim, five years after the release of FSX, but true.

Having read more posts in this forum than the moderators,

And how exactly would you know that? What make you so sure that you've read more posts here than I have?

And how exactly would you know that? What make you so sure that you've read more posts here than I have?

Well, you could probably do equal, but I will not quibble about that.

Flight is just a discovery of things that some of us have been doing for many years.

Edited by Arwen: I removed the generation insult. That has no place here.Are you kidding, Arwen? Don't be biased for the sake of it. This is entirely relevant. Video game developers have not lost sight of the importance of instant gratification for a very large segment of their target market.This is an interesting summary of some of the research in the area: http://www.playattention.com/should-i-play-or-should-i-grow-2/"The most popular video games are those that are visually intense and graphically frenetic. It’s important to mention here that paying attention to visually stimulating and frenetic activity is another hallmark of an ADHD individual. Offer a 3-ring circus and their brain is quite capable of attending to it. Ask them to clean their room, a much less stimulating activity, and it’s very difficult. This predisposition towards highly stimulating activities seems to involve the brain’s reward and gratification systems as well as its processing and other regulatory systems.Thus, a high stimulation Xbox or Play Station game is quite satisfying; ADHD individuals can hyperfocus on these games for hours on end. What does that teach? Research tells us that people who play these games do learn visual recognition skills, i.e. they can rapidly determine the number of opposing characters on screen far faster than the average human being. So, if the only thing they’re going to be is a fighter pilot, then these games might be suitable."

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by Lawyer+Pilot

Regardless of what Microsoft has planned for the future, I don't see this developing in to a true simulator platform like FSX and those that preceeded FSX. The problem is that the market for high fidelity aircraft, weather programs, etc is too small for Microsoft to develop along these lines. Sure, they may add a 787, but it'll have a handful of working switches and probably not handle like the real thing at all. While Microsoft made the foundation with FSX, it is the likes of PMDG, Level-D, FSDT, Hi-Fi, FlyTampa, Carenado, Orbx and others who really made this a simulator. Until Microsoft decides to let them in on MS Flight, this will never develop above FSX as a true simulator. It's also not as easy as simply allowing 3rd party development, but doing so in a way that allows it to be profitable. The margins are slim enough for most add-on developers that if Microsoft Live or whatever it's called takes 30%, these guys won't be able to do business.

I am starting to understand that there are far less serious simmers in this hobby than initially thought and that for some, Flight is just a discovery of things that some of us have been doing for many years.When viewed in this light, it makes a lot more sense as to why some people like Flight so much. They are the target audience. Somewhat surprising to find them in Avsim, five years after the release of FSX, but true.

I think you've got a point there. Seriously. it IS a fact that you can configure the live out of FSX and make it very easy to do anything (so it seems) a hardcore simmer would do to, giving you the impression you are also a hardcore simmer while in fact you are a casual gamer. The fact that you can NOT configure the live out of MS Flight, does indeed force casual gamers to do some more hardcore simming...

It's the sense of accomplishment that comes from learning to operate a complex aircraft in a realistically simulated environment that drives the serious simmer. At the moment, I would liken Flight to a short story. You pick it up for some wam, bam, thank you ma'am and then go on about your day.

Well, clearly MS Flight isn't something for you indeed! Nothing bad about that! What you expect from a sim can't be found in MS Flight (at least not right now. If ever.). That doesn't make MS Flight bad though: it just makes MS Flight not suited for you! And that's prefectly fine!Saying MS Flight is not for you, is perfectly fine. Saying MS Flight is bad because it's not for you, could be called wrong. I posted something about FSX yesterday in which I stated FSX is crap compared to MS Flight in a certain (!) regard, but I didn't say FSX is crap, period. No one here will mind if someone says they don't like MS Flight or if a certain aspect of MS Flight is bad (I can name a few things about MS Flight that are utterly total crap!!!), but stating something is totally bad only because you personnaly don't like it (and repeating that over and over) is wrong. (BTW I am talking in general now and not directly reacting to the posts I quoted!)BTW I apologize if the word 'crap' is offensive... English is not my native language and I don't know a better word for it...

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by J van E

You should probably use another word than "crap"!

• Excrement.
• An act of defecating.
• Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
• Cheap or shoddy material.
• Miscellaneous or disorganized items; clutter.
• Insolent talk or behavior.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/crap#ixzz1o4H5zbWh

You should probably use another word than "crap"!

• Excrement.
• An act of defecating.
• Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
• Cheap or shoddy material.
• Miscellaneous or disorganized items; clutter.
• Insolent talk or behavior.

Read more: http://www.answers.c...p#ixzz1o4H5zbWh

LOL Thanks for that. I edited my post (though not completely) and will not use the word that much anymore. If ever... I did know what it meant somehow but I don't know if it was regarded a highly offensive word like those kind of words that get replaced with **** on this forum. Since it didn't get replaced, I presumed it wasn't too offensive...

Edited March 3, 201214 yr by J van E