@ Goran,Can you get a single prop, to yaw or at least not roll like a walrus?

Definitely. But it's in the deeper end of Planemaker.

How about the Sundowner, does it roll or will it yaw? I hope I don't sound pugnacious or confrontational, or combative in any way. Just curious.

The Sundowner DOES exhibit some roll, but not as much as most other add ons in the x plane market. I have been working on an update to further reduce the roll in the Sundowner and it's looking very promising.

What perplexes me is, why don't more developers correct their aircraft models? Surely after all these years, it shouldn't be a secret known to only one or two developers, or is it? If it is, you guys should make a fortune. :( and a :( And I for one, hope that is the case.

That is a kind of sensitive area. I hate to criticize other developers, so I won't mention names, but more developers don't correct their models because, in my opinion, they simply do not know how to. This is where the "unrealistic/unstable X Plane flight model" mentality came from. Everyone thought that all they had to do was throw in some basic numbers and VOILA! They made an add on for X Plane. This mentality, unfortunately, is still around today...albeit, not as abundant as a few years ago.You are correct that it shouldn't be a secret. But Austin hasn't made it a secret. It also hasn't been "fixed" because there is nothing to fix. It's all there in Planemaker. The problem is knowing what to look for and knowing how to implement it. To give you an idea, it took me about 4 months of hardcore studying, correlating Planemaker with aviation textbooks that I was fortunate enough to get my hands on, just to get a basic idea of how Planemaker works. It took me about another year (full time researching) on top of that to really know the intricacies of Planemaker and how it works. Believe me when I tell you, Planemaker is SO MUCH MORE flexible than everyone thinks it is. Like you said, I think maybe a couple of people really know how in depth it is. This brings me to why I am hesitant in helping some people. Not just with the torque and P factor issue, but with anything Planemaker related. We're talking about a drop of help in an oceans worth of software. It's the same as giving an answer to, for example, a calculus question. Will that help them in the short term? Sure. Will that help them in the long term? Of course not. The flight model is a type of source file. I know of no developers in ANY platform wishing to share their source files with other developers or even the public.The fixes are there...in Planemaker. The developers just have to learn how Planemaker works in a far broader sense. Not just the basics.

Of course, after putting in the hard work, studying, long hours of experimenting, one could not expect you to give away your methods, after all this is your living. You are considerate to be sensitive to other developers, I as a user don't have to be sensitive, although I would be loath to name, names also, unless it was a very bad situation that warranted such an action. I have never seen that kind of situation in any simulator developer, so I think we are exceedingly fortunate in that regard.Thanks for the timely answer.

You are correct that it shouldn't be a secret.

I'm not a developer, so I'm going to let the "aileron roll" secret out of the bag. You see, my plane had the same problem. We call it heavy right wing, and even though I haveaileron trim...............it just couldn't keep it level with full left trim. Happily, stick forces to hold it level were light. And here is the solution. Just take a set of sheet metal hand seamers, the kind you can buy from Home Depot............and slightly smash the aft radius of the left aileron for a foot or so. Go slowly, fly, and redo a bit if nessessary. It's amazing how little it takes!Now that you all know the "secret", I hope that no one is upset! :Just Kidding:L.Adamson

Thanks Larry, the solution was staring us all, right in the face, (that is the rest of us outside of GoranM and MortonM), quite actually you can do that very thing in Planemaker, in fact Austin in the manual did allude to that very fact. I think the rest of us either ignored it or just didn't correlate it to the problem. I know that is my understanding, I read what to do, I just didn't let it sink in, until you brought it up. I am off to see how it works now.A caveat, it will probably be better to use one of the default aircraft rather than a payware, if you do a payware better do it in Planemaker 9 at the current time. Of course I WILL back up all files. :(

Great!Then I will give it a try, again....This weekend went flying a twin acro at LPSO and talked to a fellow UL pilot who confirmed the need for right aileron trim at high power settings/climb on his Dynamic :-)But, this sort of airplane is so sensible to even the pilot weight, that he has to trim when taking heavy passengers :-)

BTW, will that "Morton's Archer III" work in xp10 ?I downloaded it from here is this correct or is there a newer version?Thx for all of your contributions to this thread!

Jason Chandler aircraft don't roll to the right when you chop the power. www.air.c74.net.PA-46-500TPPA-46-350PPA-46-310PPA-34-220TPA-32R-301TPA-44-180PA-28R-201PA-28R-200PA-28-181PA-28-161PA-28-180PA-28-160PA-28-140PA-28-235

Stider-as I mentioned before-rw technique you would never, never "chop" the power on a Bonanza or Baron. That would be considered poor pilot technique.Quite frankly despite flying a bo for 11 years and a Baron for 7 I really do not know real world what the birds do if you chop the power-never, ever did it.So would suggest to eliminate this problem that seems to be annoying to you-fly the bird the real way. It is not a Cessna.Same with slips-it will not slip like a Cessna. They used to be called "Dr. Killers" because they had the reputation of Dr.s learning to fly a Cessna 150/172, then immediatly trading up to a Bo with little experience and trying to fly them like Cessnas. Didn't work well.

BTW, will that "Morton's Archer III" work in xp10 ?I downloaded it from here is this correct or is there a newer version?Thx for all of your contributions to this thread!

Yes Mortons Archer III works great in x-Plane 10.It appears that you have downloaded an older version of the Archer. The one downloaded from here http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?autocom=downloads&showfile=8870 was updated in 2011. After unzipping it is named Piper Archer III. The one you have downloaded appears to be done in 2007, I would download the one from the X Plane.org to be up to date. That one has a lot more files in it.

Thx! Just downloaded it and will test as soon as possible!:-)

I have just done a quick circuit around the pattern in the craft you downloaded and it seems to fly OK.A qick tip: It appeaps in the cockpit that you are setting in the exact middle instead of the left side, go to Settings/Rendering Options, and set the lateral offset found in the lower center of the screen to about 0.20 to 0.25 setting. This will make it look like you are setting in the left seat and the middle windshield structure won't be in your way.

Thx for all your suggestions.Gave it a try. It does show slight bank when you give throttle, acceptable since there should be a rolling moment due to torque, but the ball keeps to the center mostly once you get airborne and start your climb. There is yet a lot of adverse yaw - the ammount I would like to see at least that big in the AS-K21 glider :-( ... I believe the Archer is a "feet on the floor" turning airplane...So the Archer does roll left on takeoff/climb, and that is acceptable, but the ball keeps almost allways tied to the center. OTOH it show excessive adverse yaw on turns, while the AS-K21 glider, for instance, looks more like an Archer....Next I chose the AS-K21, a glider I fly for real, and gave it a try too. I ended up recording this "As Real as it can get in x-plane 10" video - pulling hard near to Vne - and ... gave up, for the 3rd time, on xp10... sorry....Ah... it continued that way until, slowlly it got calm and with the wings back to their normal operational state :-), but that would have made the video just too long...P.S.: the quality of the video is poor I know... as poor as, sorry to say, some aspects of xplane's physics/engine/systems may well be, even with those fancy Plane Maker screens....

Isn't the AS-K21 glider for x plane a freeware add on?You're judging x planes flight model based on freeware?I'm not saying you have to like XP10, but judging its flight model based on a freeware add on is a bit laughable, when there are so many people here who hold a few add ons in very high regard...and it's those very add ons that utilize x planes flight model programming.Why don't you show some video of the Piper Archer or the Carenado Bonanza?Why only show a freeware aircraft?Why, in the glider video, did you choose to do a straight down nose dive and then pull up? That is not how you fly a glider.The wings went crazy, most likely because it is not the normal default x plane aircraft you are seeing. They are animations done by the developer on a 3D model.

Goran, I did try the Archer III, as I did the Carenado F33A. I also recorded the same sort of video with FSX, for instance - see

(skip to minute 45) when I was trying to move to xplane 9 - there are also 2 other videos on my youtube chanel, one with a nice helo and the other with the default AS-K21 in v9...That's why I like it simple... but credible... as far as possible... tweaking free, well... you may guess...Ah! There is one thing positive in this RC1 - it's a lot more fluid on my rather old PC ....P.S.: of course I don't do it in RL :-) but, my point is, even if the animations can be blamed in this "free" K-21, the physics model in a flight simulator should NEVER EVER allow for such... Don't you think so?

Sorry, jcommA 30 second video you posted of a freeware model in X Plane by a developer, from what I understand is new to add on development, is not grounds to judge x planes flight model. Nowhere near it. And if you think it is, then you have no idea about what Planemaker is capable of.Choose a reputable developer. Tom Kyler and his MU2. Javier Rollon and his CRJ. Nils Danielson and his BK117.THEN we can have a discussion.

Next I chose the AS-K21, a glider I fly for real, and gave it a try too. I ended up recording this "As Real as it can get in x-plane 10" video - pulling hard near to Vne - and ... gave up, for the 3rd time, on xp10... sorry....

Hi jcomm, can you try the same with the "flight models per frame" value (menu "Operations & Warnings") upped to, say, 4 or 5?I'm curious to know if it exhibits the same behaviour.Marco