Forward: Excuse any grammar mistakes I'm just going to free flow ramble here.I've alway owned some iteration of Flight Sim and I was your basic take off, land, fly around, land, take off VFR in a 5sq box pilot. Then it would just sit there untouched for months before I had a brief period where I'd play it again. Rinse, repeat. By the time I got old enough (35 now) and settled down in life FSX was out. If I was overwhelmed and "scared" of radio stacks and cockpit gadgets, navigation maps etc etc during my younger days and earlier incarnations of Flight Sim I was even more so with FSX. Something with every iteration never fully touched that aviation bug in me. That bug that had my ceiling raining model airplanes as a kid. That bug where I forced my father to buy the entire Growing Up With Science encyclopedia set only because I saw the Wright Brothers plane on the cover of one. That bug where I'd sit on my grandmothers porch at McGuire Airforce Base with my plastic fighter jet in one hand, soda in the other and eyes at the sky watching C-141 Starlifters with their distinctive low tone screaming engines seemingly floating from above the forest canopy separating the base from us, gear retracting, and then left bank with the exhaust trails looming behind as it faded out to some unknown destination. All in time for the next one! And the next! And the next.. FSX had the tools to learn but the implementation and teaching aspect was just lost in translation and made me go right back to "Takeoff, land, takeoff land, Take Off Land" from two airports in visual distance. I remember the beginning missions already telling me about navigation freqs and headings.. What the heck, I was just dropping stupid flour bags before now I need to know headings, and radio freqs? And what is this navigation map? How the heck do I read that? Some may forget what it's like to not know anything about a radio stack, or freqs, or ATC lingo but to a new guy FSX did an awful job at making learning any of that inviting at all.In comes MS Flight.. 3 weeks in I've already thrown away my twist joystick and bought a CH Eclipse Yoke, Saitek Rudder Pedals and Throttle quadrant, can navigate VORs, understand radials, learning some ATC lingo from people on multiplayer, learning the proper flight procedures, the list goes on. The ironic part of it is.. The simulator itself taught me none of it, it made me WANT to learn it by providing a friendly, intuitive, uncluttered and inviting interface where I didn't feel I needed a sim e-license just to get involved beyond just VFRing around aimlessly. The map itself was key.. VORs? ILS? DMEs? Airports? All right there in an easy to get to interface? Unlike FSX's map which was completely cluttered, buttons everywhere and very overwelming to someone like myself. Off to Google I went and self taught myself about headings, navigating VORs, DME's, and ILS's. My first and only time on a FSX multiplayer session was promptly met with being banned in 10 minutes because I had no idea what the guy playing ATC was saying and decided to fly around the airport instead.. In MS Flight multiplayer I was met by friendly people who started introducing themselves, asking questions, helping people and just generally being very inviting to stick around and enjoy yourself.So.. MS Flight has done something no other incarnation of a Flight Sim has managed to do. Made me go out of my way to learn all the things the other iterations of simulators made sound so complicated, unappealing and only for "the hardcore" and they didn't even have to put any real training material in the game itself.Also, while I'm at it because these people are hardly getting any credit at all. I want to thank the old school, long term guys and gals who are well educated in this stuff who are being peers to people and passing along their knowledge to people like me or the 12 year old who never heard of flaps until he played this game. Whether it be from years of flying simulators, real life or both those of you being the bigger person and understanding that MS Flight is actually bringing in a new breed of flight simmers who want to know this stuff but never had the desire to w/ the other simulators. Again.. Thank you, there are too many to remember all the names but you know who you are..

Well, different people, different learning techniques. Maybe thats just it: New guys in simming world and aviation world want to learn something found its interesting to do that in flight, while experienced simmers or RL pilots just think they cannot learn nothing new in MS F. For me learning about any aspect of aviation equals fun, so I really enjoyed learning through MS FS franchise, after that I started with RL flight training, I still do it but I feel most knowledge I have now I learned in MS FS (yea, RL flight school gave me less knowledge than PC based simulations and whole community around it). I enjoyed that much learning through MS FS, useful topics on different forums (this one too), VATSIM, that I would like to erase my memory and start all over again.

Great post styckx, thanks. I remember those early days very well. Learning ILS by accident because when I took off from Meigs and flew north the radio was already tuned to Chicago; just make a left turn when the needle lines up and intercept the glide slope.Flight is the most fun I've had with a flight sim since those early days.Hook

+1Awesome post Bill, a very enjoyable read!It is neat how Flight has invigorated your interest to the extent you searched out and learned more about different aspects and digging deeper, into flying - with things like vor navigation, etc. Yours is a prime example of how Flight can not only bring more people into the fold, but encourage those that never took the time to really get into flight simming with previous versions due to the complexity and being so overwhelmed by what is there in front of them.I truly believe the numbers of folks who have bought FSX, and/or previous versions, that shelved them after a couple of weeks or so and went on to other things, is a very high number. I believe MS believes this as well, which is one of probably many reasons they took the direction they did with Flight.Prior to FSX, I was just like you. I purchased and still have currently , many incarnations in the MSFS series. I would install, try to get into it for a couple of week or so, feel so overwhelmed that I would shelve it, never to return. With FSX I did search out and found a newsgroup, and asked some questions, and it stayed on my machine, eventually learning the ins and outs of ILS flying - and got proficient enough I could plan a flight, load up the 737, and get from point a to point b - successfully.I still however know nothing about VOR navigating, however similar to you - I have searched out and got info to learn just that, and intend to do so here in the next few days.Yours is a perfect example in part , of what MS hopes to accomplish with the introduction of Flight.Exellent post, and thank you for taking the time to share your experiences.

+1, bill. yet another great contribution to the avsim essay content. I voted here and I would vote there. happy flying. cheersphil

I've been flying for years on the pc by now, but it wasn't until MS Flight that I really felt the need to learn all about VORs... and I am even considering getting rudder pedals. I've learned a lot already of course during my years with FSX and the versions before that, but somehow MS Flight is fun and funnily enough it FORCES you to do things in another way because some options are missing (like GPS and AP).

I've been flying for years on the pc by now, but it wasn't until MS Flight that I really felt the need to learn all about VORs... and I am even considering getting rudder pedals.

Do it Jeroen, do not even think about it - if you can swing it, do it. Pedals add so much to the immersion. I am flying an old set of TM Elite rudder pedals, I modded them with Hall sensors, and they have been performing flawless for me for several years. Course the Elite's are no longer produced. Only thing lacking is toe brakes, I know they are not currently supported in the sim but surely they will be, so if you do search out for pedals I would highly recommend getting them with the toe brakes. I wish I could justify getting new ones, but these as they are now will probably never wear out on me. Toe brakes on the other hand, might be enough to justify in my mind...

I modded them with Hall sensors

Um, could you possibly link me to more information? I've heard of Hall sensors before, didn't know you could replace what was in an existing device with them.Jeroen, I agree, go for the rudder pedals. The only question is, which kind to get? I've got CH Pro Pedals which are great. If the Saitek Cessna Pedals work well, I might prefer them. If I can rest my heels comfortably on the floor and get very fine control, and if there's no center detent, then it's a definite. CH has a center detent, a problem sometimes when flying helos for example, and your feet fit into the pedals, no heels on the floor action.Hook

Thanks for the kind words everyone! Was a bit hesitant on writing that but glad I did.As far as rudder pedals. DO IT. It took me about 20 minutes to get used to using after so long of twisting a joystick. Once you're over that hill it's like riding a bike, you take right to them no problems.. It's actually a lot easier and makes your aircraft handling much better as you don't have to complete two actions w/ the same control which makes coordinating things a pain. Now it is much much easier.I am happy as heck w/ the Saitek Pro Flights.. Just make sure you have a way to secure them or a way to brace them. The Saitek ones came with life saving brackets that slid onto to the pedals and allowed you to screw the suckers right to the floor. During my research of peddles that was one of the biggest `obstacles' people had.. If they aren't secure or you don't have something to brace them against they will be sliding all around your floor.

The Saitek ones came with life saving brackets that slid onto to the pedals and allowed you to screw the suckers right to the floor.

I've got some wooden cigar boxes between my pedals and the wall. That braces them nicely. Also, I can rearrange the boxes a bit to move the pedals according to whether I'm using a yoke or joystick; I need to sit farther back from the desk with a yoke.I've also used a cardboard box (loaded with games, pillow on top for use as a footstool when a cat isn't occupying it), and a couple of small blocks in front to brace the pedals. Lots of possiblities. Some people use floor tiles the same way I use the boxes.Hook

During my research of peddles that was one of the biggest `obstacles' people had.. If they aren't secure or you don't have something to brace them against they will be sliding all around your floor.

Oh yeah that is a big issue to overcome.My wife and I purchased new home back on 08 - yeah, just prior to the " crash" lucky us.Our home has hardwood flooring. Now you can just imagine how rudder pedals might slide on hardwood flooring.Luckily, my Klipsch 5.1 sound system, has a large subwoofer that fits nicely under my desk near the back, and in size is just perfect - I have my rudder pedals just in front of the sub, resting nicely against the front of the sub - so they can go nowhere.So the moral of the story - if you get rudder pedals and have a problem with them sliding, and if you do not have a great sound system with a nice heavy sub, great excuse to get one! - But honey, I really need - not want - need this new soundsystem, to anchor my new pedals and then I have the added benefit of great sound!

Um, could you possibly link me to more information? I've heard of Hall sensors before, didn't know you could replace what was in an existing device with them.

I will tell you, Hall Sensors are fantastic - if one's controller has regular pots, which are notorious for eventually getting dirty and spiking, Hall Sensors totally elimates that. I do not know however, how difficult it might be for one to replace their own pots in their own controllers, with Hall Sensors. I would imagine that might be a daunting task.I have Hall sensors all the way around, in my Cougar joystick and throttle, and in my Elite rudder pedals as mentioned. These mods were done back in 2004/2005, and they have been silky smooth with nary a spike since.In my case it was not so bad - a guy that goes by "Cub Pilot", created the Hall Sensor Kits exclusively for the TM Cougar controllers, and the TM RCS and Elite models of rudder pedals. On my Cougar stick I purchased the Uber2 NXT gimbal mod from another fellow who makes these gimbal mods over in Australia, and he equips the gimbal mod to use Hall Sensors only - and Cub Pilot provides the Hall Sensors ready to go for this gimbal mod. And then I purchased the Hall Sensor kit, from Cub Pilot, for my Cougar throttle, and Elite Pedals. The kit form he provides made replacing the regular pots with them a breeze.His website is:http://cubpilotshangar.net/I don't know that he would offer a kit per se for another line of controllers, but his contact info is there and if one is interested in learning if they can do so with their controllers, he would certainly be the man to anwer that question.

LOL Seems this topic is turned into a rudder topic...? I was looking at the Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder pedals: I've read good things about them and it seems that the fact you can keep the back of your feet on the ground works well/better/more comfortable opposed to the pedals where you have to put your complete foot on the pedal.http://www.saitek.co.../compedals.htmlThe older version (without combat) is about half the price, but I rather have quality when it comes to something like this.Anyone here who has the combat version? Or should I really check out some other pedals...? I decided to go for it now! :wink:EDITI see the Saitek Cessna pedals use the same system (back of the foot on the ground). I wonder if there are any real differences...? When I compare the pictures, the actual pedals from the combat version seem to be more comfortable...? The Cessna pedals has a real edge on it (or however you say that):http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/cessnapedals.html

The Cessna pedals are the newer ones. :)dburne: thanks for the info and link.Hook

The Cessna pedals are the newer ones. :)

Newer doesn't mean it's better...