Hey Guys,I am pretty confused about when to set flaps and gear on looooooong straight in, constant descent approaches such as the ILS to 07R at KPHX from the FFIXA waypoint. I encountered a similar situation yesterday at KLAS. According to the manual you are supposed to lower flaps 5 when you are on the intercept heading for the final approach course. If I did that in this approach, that would be quite a ways out. Then, according to the manual, you should extend the gear and flaps 15 when the glide slope becomes active, and then landing flaps when you are established on glide slope. This is where I get confused. Because, on a long straight in, continuous descent approach like this one, you capture the glide slope long before approaching the FAF and you don't really get an opportunity to level out and slow down. In real life, at what point would you lower each notch of flaps and lower the gear? My dilemma on this approach is that if I lower the gear and flaps 15 when the glide slope first becomes active, I would have the gear down at about 20 miles out from the airport. This just doesn't seem realistic. On the other hand, if I wait until approaching the FAF, since I would have already been following the g/s I find it very hard to slow down to flap maneuvering speeds and VREF because the constant descent approach doesn't have a level segment before intercepting the g/s from below close to the FAF. How would a real pilot fly this kind of approach in the real world? Any help would be much appreciated.Best Regards,Rob

Rob,In real life that's not a continuous descent approach - ATC would definitely have you level before intercepting the G/S - that's the point at which you'd slow. There's always some amount of vectoring in the Phoenix area (I lived there for many years) - there's no straight in approaches from T/D all the way to the runway. What I'd probably do in FS is put a 7000 foot mandatory restriction in at FFIXA - the plane is then level between FFIXA and TESLE and you can use that space to slow. I'd be at flaps 5 at TESLE - once you're at flaps 5 and the associated maneuvering speed you're going to have enough drag to slow down while descending. Once you hit TOTIE (the FAF) go flaps 15 gear down and then landing flaps.

Rob,A lot of what makes a pilot a pilot is his (or her) ability to take knowledge and adapt it to every situation. SOPs are great, and checklists are great too, but they only go so far. Really, the only thing that matters is that you make a stable approach. When you decide to put the flaps out is purely up to you. The information you cite is provided simply as guidelines for generic scenarios. If PHX doesn't fit that, improvise based on your knowledge of the aircraft.

Thanks Ryan and Kyle! I would have never thought to make my own level segment through the fmc. By straight in, continuous descent approach I meant the constant descent from FFIXA all the way down to the runway. I've gotten to used to approaches where you pretty much maintain a constant altitude(Or a very slight difference in altitude) from the IAF until reaching the FAF. For example the ILS RWY 18 approach at KLEB. This allows for easier decelleration. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this because of clearing surrounding terrain? Also, now that I reflect back at my flight, I realized that I left the anti-ice on when not necessary on the approach and I had used a CI of 100, which gave me difficulties in maintaining the correct descent speed. I love how realistic this plane is. It really demands all of your attention and will make you aware of your mistakes.Best Regards,Rob

CDA is a current trend in aviation, it is more difficult, but technology is getting better, and since it saves gas, and makes less noise, CDA is getting more popular and more prefered.

Rob,Do you have the chart for this approach? The level segment is basically in there... The MEA between FFIXA and TESLE is 7000 - that's where I got it from. That ensures terrain clearance.

Also, in real life, the pilots rely on their experience rather than making sure they have flaps 5 at a specific point...basically a combination of experience and planning will result in not even really having to think of when/where to start the flap extension...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this because of clearing surrounding terrain? Also, now that I reflect back at my flight, I realized that I left the anti-ice on when not necessary on the approach and I had used a CI of 100, which gave me difficulties in maintaining the correct descent speed. I love how realistic this plane is. It really demands all of your attention and will make you aware of your mistakes.

You're welcome Rob. For what it's worth, a CI of 100 is way too aggressive. Most airlines are somewhere around the 20s (...ish - with a good degree of variability). A CI of 100 meant the plane probably descended at a very high speed and like a brick, which probably made your speed issues worse on the approach. AI would have made it a lot worse, too (there's a reason that there's an AI ON/OFF section on the descent forecast page).

Rob,Do you have the chart for this approach? The level segment is basically in there... The MEA between FFIXA and TESLE is 7000 - that's where I got it from. That ensures terrain clearance.

I do. My bad, I should have said a constant approach from the IF(TESLE) all the way down to the runway. I think what I also should have done and what I'll do next time is put in a manual restraint of 7000 at FFIXA as you suggested. Would you add this restraint through the legs page, or one of the descent pages? I just plugged in the GEELA5.7R Arrival and let the plane descend all the way down on VNAV. Since I had too high of a CI(with a high descent speed), and the anti ice on, at FFIXA I ended up being somewhere around 8500-9000 ft at too high a speed for flaps.

You're welcome Rob. For what it's worth, a CI of 100 is way too aggressive. Most airlines are somewhere around the 20s (...ish - with a good degree of variability). A CI of 100 meant the plane probably descended at a very high speed and like a brick, which probably made your speed issues worse on the approach. AI would have made it a lot worse, too (there's a reason that there's an AI ON/OFF section on the descent forecast page).

Very Cool. I never even knew they had that in the descent forecast page. In fact I don't think I've ever even used the descent forecast page. :LMAO:Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'm gonna have to retry this flight now and see how it goes.Thanks again,Robert

You can also check out liveatc.net and listen to various towers and approaches to find out what the standard ops are

My thoughts:I don't think CI will have any affect below 10,000. You'll arrive at 10,000 feet, in theory, at the same place regardless of you CI, since it's all based on a 250 speed until you need to start slowing for the approach.If you were 20 out on final and on the G/S, you could just drop some flaps. 5 or 10, depending on temp and wt, will keep you at a reasonable speed and on G/S.You don't really need a level section to decel, but it's easier of course.If all else fail, remember - DROP THE GEAR. You don't have to wait for flaps to drop the gear.

Just to let you guys know. I tried the flight again today. I used a CI of 36 and put in a 7000ft restraint at FFIXA. This gave me a descent speed of 280 knots and I was able to slow down very nicely without using much speedbrakes. It also allowed me to decellerate to flaps 5 speed in a easy manner. Once on final I was able to decellerate nicely to my approach speed of 150 knots very nicely and extend my flaps and gear in a timely and realistic manner. Thanks for the tips.Thanks Again,Robert