$30 used to be top-whack for me when deciding on addons for FS until I discovered the PMDG 737-700 (which is worth the price purely on the complexity of the coding and the flight model).I agree the "next step" should be for all addon developer to offer a time-limited demo especially if trying to sell their addons for $30+ActiveCamera is a good example of a demo with its "area restricted" lock.RealAir Simulations do offer a "demo" in the shape of the Cessna 172SP which is available for free from their website and is an excellent demonstration of their specialist flight dynamics modelling capabilities. Once I had flown the Cessna 172 I was reasonably confident that their payware would perform to an equally high standard (as has been the case with the SF260, Decathlon and Bellanca Scout).RegardsAdam

AnthonyI asked for a cup holder and an eyelash tinter and curler - PMDG refused - but in the virtual cabin they did put a special 'comfort' area for tired pilots.:D Andy b

>>>And you do buy boxed products that you can't try before you buy?<<

Demo's or none, when the price of an add-on is well over half the price of the entire sim, forget it! That's one plane! I've learned my lesson from the few big$ add-ons, PMDG excluded, that I've bought. I'll stick with the lower priced models. Most of the time my mid-end system doesn't provide an enjoyable experience when the add-on costs this much and I always end up regretting the purchase.But regardless of the price, I do think a demo is a good idea, esp. for these higher ended add-ons. If some key features need to be disabled, or limited to prevent piracy, so be it. But at least people can get to know the product and see if their system can truly handle it with enjoyable results. When we go in blind, and I consider a freeware manual still going in blind (as to performance), the chances of a bad experience go up exponentionally. Most software companies flat out fib about the rec'd specs to fly their add-ons, and we've all found that out at least once.If buyers know what they are getting, and how it performs, even for 15 minutes, they are more likely to buy, and will be able to buy with confidence. And I think that we will hear a lot less complaining from people in the forums about poor performance. Just my 2 cents.

Demos of aircraft add-ons would not work.The PMDG 737NG for instance. How would you put out a demo for it? 1. Make the FMC not work? Can't do that, then people would complain that they are not getting a "good idea" of the aircraft's panel they might purchase. Then they wouldn't be able to justify the price.2. Limit the flight modeling? Can't do that for obvious reasons.3. Make one without the VC available? Can't do that, some don't want a VC..it would be like a free aircraft. Same situation with releasing a demo without the cabin.4. Limit the 2D views? Can't do that, many of us give a darn about 2D views. Same situation as #3.5. Make a version without the sounds available? Can't do that, there are other freeware sound packages out there that can be used instead.So, how would you release a demo of it without alienating half of the potential buyers? You can't. Removing one aspect of the aircraft constituting it's title of "demo" would result in a "part" of the aircraft that many may want to see BEFORE they drop the $40.Releasing demos is a bad idea IMO. It isn't nessacary, what is, is a little research before purchasing.Some have complained that the FeelThere CRJ doesn't have a completely functional FMC....well, guess what? The manual was AVAILABLE BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE AIRCRAFT. Those complaining should have done the 1 min. of searching for the manual before purchasing. I don't order stuff at restaurants before I look at the menu to see what is "in" what I am ordering.....I guess some around here do. Lacking features is one thing, and bugs another. Yes, there are bugs....all releases have bugs somewhere. Wait till they are fixed. There are only a few payware aircraft companies that I know of that don't release the manual to the public as a seperate download so the potential buyer can look over/study it beforehand.My .02c

I can see your point about the limiting of features, I still think that you can get an idea of how the new add-on will affect your system even if you time-code, or disable a few of the goodies for the protection of the company. That's all I'd like to see, performance hit on my personal machine. That's the second reason I'd choose to buy or not (after price).As a side note, Shane, I think your previous post(s) in this thread is/are a little condescending. We'd all appreciate a little more civility in the forums, especially if you are going to disagree with someone.best

>I can see your point about the limiting of features, I still>think that you can get an idea of how the new add-on will>affect your system even if you time-code, or disable a few of>the goodies for the protection of the company. That's all I'd>like to see, performance hit on my personal machine. That's>the second reason I'd choose to buy or not (after price).>>As a side note, Shane, I think your previous post(s) in this>thread is/are a little condescending. We'd all appreciate a>little more civility in the forums, especially if you are>going to disagree with someone.>>best"I disagree with a few of your "opinions" Daryll.;) "How is that condescending?I even put a smiley face at the end of it.Besides that, it is true. I do disagree with his comments/opinions.

Where are the demoes of FS2004, Windows XP, etc. etc.?Yet apparently the OP didn't object to buying those without trying them first (or did he...).Making manuals available in lue of demoes is becoming more common, as well as demo videos.IMO a better solution than time limited or otherwise crippled versions.Unless those are completely separate products from the sold item they're always far too easy to crack for the pirates (which is a major reason why many companies stepped away from demoes in the first place). And if they are completely separate products the number of people who don't believe it's a fair representation of the real product will be large thus working against the product which is contrary to the idea of a demo...As to price levels of FS addons, considering that each of those addons has to compete in a very limited market space yet has high development cost the price will be high.As customers are demanding more and more out of an addon, that development cost will only continue to go up. As these ever more complex products will appeal to an ever smaller percentage of the total potential customer base (the total installed base of MSFS) the only way to keep prices of addons down while meeting the customer demand for ever more complexity is to increase the total userbase of FS faster than the percentage of that userbase that purchases these addons goes down.Such is a loosing proposition of course. Microsoft helps somewhat by having lowered the price (and thus the barrier towards entering the marketplace for addons) of the core product almost constantly over the last 10 years or so while increasing the scope of the product and lowering the barriers towards addon development (FS2004 is actually cheaper in current currency than was FS2002 or FS2000 in current currency when that was on the market despite heavy inflation).As it is I think it fair to conclude that an ever-increasing development cost for each addon has to be spread over an ever-decreasing number of expected sales due to both the decreasing userbase for complex addons (as compared to simpler ones) and the ever increasing competition between addon creators.While some may go overboard and charge ridiculous prices for products that aren't worth that kind of money, most do not and hardly make a living despite the prices they're asking.If Flight1 (for example) spends a year creating a product involving a 5 person team fulltime (at $40.000 a year each) and lead investment in tools and information of maybe $10.000 that's a $50.000 investment before marketing cost, sales and technical support, etc. have been taken into consideration.Just to recover that investment, they'd have to sell a thousand copies at $50 each or 2000 copies at $25 each.Take taxes and support/marketing cost into account and those numbers easily double.They now have to sell 4000 copies at $25 each just to break even on the product.If that product competes with 2 other products on a narrow market which cost about the same where there is a total expected sales volume in that market segment of 10.000 units that means they'll need a 40% marketshare to break even at $25 each. To make a small profit (always nice for the shareholders) they need at least half the market for their own. Of course the 2 potential competitors also need half the market each to make a profit. Unless mathematics are suddenly changed something has to give as the total market is only 100%, not 150%. Either increase the price to gain a profit at 33% of the market (in other words, to break even at say 2500 units instead of 4000) or suffer a loss on the product.As to people complaining they're getting ever less for their money, you're not!The 10 or so aircraft you paid $30 for in a package for FS98 or FS2000 are each less than 1/10 as complex as the single aircraft you pay $30 for today.Those aircraft had no realistic animation, working virtual cockpit, highly complex panel with custom nav/com units, finetuned FDEs created from data gathered by renting or borrowing a real aircraft of the type modelled (if not cooperation with the actual manufacturer), testing by company testpilots of the manufacturer and/or actual aircraft owners.That FS98/FS2000 package might have been in development for a month or so before being put on sale, the current package will have taken a year or more by a larger team.You asked for that realism and complexity yourself, now refuse to even consider getting anything less complex. But you also complain that you're getting only one aircraft that's taken a year to create for your money instead of 10 that took a combined 2 months?The same is (to a somewhat lesser degree) true for scenery as well.Where in the past scenery designers could work from an airport diagram and some photographs, today's customer expects that every smallest detail is modelled not only in the correct shape and size but positioned down to a few millimeters of where it is in real life.A missing manhole cover might cause people to flame to developer for being incomplete, a building painted the wrong shade of blue would have users up in arms for the "terrible flaw" in the product.A few years ago you would have been happy to have the building there at all, never mind the colour it had.Such research again is costly and time consuming. The developer will have to send people over to the airport, work with airport authorities to gain permission to make detailed measurements and take thousands of photographs of ever smallest detail.They may need to procure blueprints of the actual buildings to work from.All of that takes time and money, time and money that in the past would have been used to pump out more products at shorter intervals which allowed the price of each to be lower while keeping the income stream of the manufacturer the same.

As usual......we have those who believe that everyone should just shut up and just accept whatever the payware company throws at them. Don't complain about quality. Be appreciative, stand in lines, buy, download, fly, keep a smile on your face, even if you're not happy with it. Act like a bunch of blind sheep. But Sir, my FPS are horrible.....SHUT UP! But Sir, the Hold function doesn't work.......SHUT UP!But Sir, for $35 shouldn't the Direct To function work?.....SHUT UP!Funny thing is that I don't see many people complaining about quality when it comes to PMDG, Dreamfleet, Flight1, FSD, RAS. Even CaptainSim is up there in quality. Personally, if the PIC767 for FS9 costs $50, I will buy it, as long as it is at least the same quality as the FS2000 version and more.Bottom line is, sure, most people grunt about the high price, but as long as the quality is there to justify the price, most people will still buy it. When PMDG's 737 came out, a lot of people complained about the price. But when it became apparent that the quality was there, and PMDG even added more to the airplane in the service updates for the same price, then a lot of people bought it.But no one is going to tell me to SHUT UP and buy an addon if I dont think the quality is worth the price. I give high marks to FeelThere for dropping their price. But I will continue flying the PMDG737 and wait for the PICV2 and ATR. Those are the next addons that will see my credit card. And of course, if I don't think their quality is worth their price...my credit card goes back into hibernation. It's just that simple.I AM NOT A SHEEP.Baa, Baa, Baaaaaaaa (Sheepese for "Thank You"):-)

>As usual......we have those who believe that everyone should>just shut up and just accept whatever the payware company>throws at them. Who?

Very well said Jeroen....Best Regards,Jim Rhoads